On 10/20/07, Majorly <axel9891(a)googlemail.com> wrote: Oh no it can't. It can be very good but if it's under 50-60 lines long then it can't be excellent Phoenix 15

On 21/10/2007, Phoenix wiki <phoenix.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote: Nonsense. We are an encyclopedia; the entire point of an encyclopedia is not just to cover all sorts of things, but cover them simply and concisely and without rabbiting on at great length about trivial aspects. There are no shortage of subjects where the perfect article is a couple of tightly-written paragraphs and a pointer to further reading. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk

Phoenix wiki wrote: Untrue. I write on several articles that do, in fact, cover everything that you might need to know about a subject (indeed, I'm *often* taking lines out of [[Hidden tracks]] because everyone any their brother wants to add their favourite bands track to the article, even if there's already a documented example of the method they used to 'hide' the track). But the articles will never be 'featured'; they often just aren't an expansive enough subject, even when they're definitely something someone might well look up. (in the case of the Hidden tracks, it will also never be labelled a GA, because there's a checklist that people use, such as 'should include a picture', and the vague idea that the article should be more prose, less list. Yet in the case of the subject in question, it makes much more sense to say, 'Here's a method, here's some technical info about how it's implemented. a) example, b) variant, c) variant.' Also a picture on the page would be superfluous; illustrating 'Hidden tracks' is impossible. It's a short article, to the point, and not ever going to be more than a B-class because people have a list of things that they check it against, instead of allowing that not all subjects need to be 20 pages, 300 footnotes, and copiously illustrated, and that the subject does in fact cover the subject completely, regardless of the checklist) Thes.

Yeah and still does. You might try actually looking at some GAs before shooting your mouth off. I've reviewed dozens of GA articles, and most of them are far, far too short to ever be FA. I think almost all GA project people would agree. Examples I have passed: Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (Puerto Rico), Haystacks (Monet), SS Christopher Columbus, Roman trade with India, and the list goes on. The point is: yes, long articles get passed by GA when they should be FA candidates. But that serves as a great stepping stone for those articles, and the short, great articles that never will be FA get to be recognized. On 10/21/07, John Lee <johnleemk(a)gmail.com> wrote:

You obviously know little about the GA criteria, in letter and in practice. You claim that all GA's "have to have a picture" (paraphrase). Not a single reviewer I know makes the mistake of thinking images are required. Review templates even stress this explicitly. Only proper image licenses and rationales are required for images present. But you can pass GA without an image. On 10/21/07, John Lee <johnleemk(a)gmail.com> wrote:

An article shouldn't have to be comprehensive to be a GA Oh lord, the ten thousandth person who gets a kick from griping about what GA should and shouldn't be while, in the meantime, people are actually improving and promoting articles. On 10/21/07, John Lee <johnleemk(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Johnleemk wrote: So is it time for [[Wikipedia:Fine articles]]? [[Wikipedia:Pretty Darn Good articles]]? [[Wikipedia:Nothing wrong with them (but no checklist to say so) articles]]?

On 10/22/07, Anthony <wikimail(a)inbox.org> wrote: [[User:Johnleemk]]. Unless you were talking to Steve, in which case, ignore me. Johnleemk

On 10/24/07, Oldak Quill <oldakquill(a)gmail.com> wrote: If you look at most encyclopaedias, most of their articles are very short - a paragraph or two. It's a pity that the overwhelming tendency on Wikipedia is to amalgamate several short articles into one longer one. It means that less often a searcher finds an article whose primary focus is about the actual topic they're searching for. To take an extreme example, it would be better IMHO for someone searching for, say "Old Engineering Building 34" to receive a short one liner "OEB34 is one of several buildings at the University of Foobar. See [[University of Foobar#Engineering]] for more information." Steve

On 10/24/07, Matthew Brown <morven(a)gmail.com> wrote: That's an interesting point which sounds plausible. 10 articles of 1000 words are easier to patrol than 100 articles of 100 words each. Would that our patrolling mechanisms were better... Steve

On your 2nd point, you may be right. However, your 1st point, surely a great big long article have more chance of finding {{fact}} statement in then one of paragraph or two. Those that are short and unsourced will at least be obviously so, whereas the embedded uncited statement can often be left there for years. KTC -- Experience is a good school but the fees are high. - Heinrich Heine

On 10/24/07, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen(a)shaw.ca> wrote: It is true, but why? And is it desirable? Steve

On 10/25/07, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen(a)shaw.ca> wrote: some form in many countries. We would, IMHO, do much better to have individual articles precisely describing the phenomenon each time it appears, rather than attempting to describe generalisations. For example: -- Mulled wine, variations of which are popular around the world, is wine, usually red wine, combined with spices and typically served hot. In the old times wine often went bad, but by adding spices and honey it could be made drinkable again. Nowadays it is a traditional drink during winter, and especially around Christmas, to warm up. In Italy, this beverage is typically drunk in the northern part of the country. -- or: -- Deviled eggs or eggs mimosa are a common dish in France and the United States, but they actually originated in Rome according to the show The Secret Life Of.... Made with hard-boiled eggs, deviled eggs are served cold. They are served as a side dish and are a common holiday or party food. Deviled eggs are one way of using Easter eggs after the children have found them. In the Southern U.S., they are commonly served as hors d'oeuvres before a full meal is served, often during the summer months. Deviled eggs are so popular that special serving dishes and carrying trays are sold specifically for this type of food. Prepared deviled eggs are now available in some supermarkets. -- My particular complaint here is that much of what is said only applies in the US. An article about "oeux mimosa" would not refer to "party food" or "special serving dishes". Why not just have a separate article, like: '''Oeuf mimosa''' (mimosa egg) is a French dish made from hard boiled egg and mayonnaise, similar to the American dish [[deviled egg]]. ... We're not really gaining a lot by attempting to find common ground between two separate cultural phenomena, and we lose a lot of precision. Steve