On 12/8/07, Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com> wrote:
I am glad to see Alec laying his cards on the table
here.
Ouch! Well, I don't know how to take this, per se, other than to
apologize for inadvertant toe-stepping. Granted, I wasn't unaware
that some toes were getting tender, but I didn't realize what large
and influencial toes they were.
--
Reading you email, I get the feeling like you feel like this whole
issue was manufacture by malcontents-- but really, all I and other
concerned editors have done is reeped the seeds of confusion sown by
Durova's own words.
Durova was quite clear that she had consulted with other "sleuths" and
that she had received "enthusiastic" endorsements. I didn't concoct
the theory that there was extensive collaboration-- Durova cited that
collaboration to justify her actions. When it turned out that
whatever group had collaborated in the !! was, essentially, smoking
crack, I honestly thought I could help the project out by asking
pointed questions to try to determine who the amorphous assortment
was.
Similarly, I didn't create the idea of a 'list, the existence of which
is unknown', I just quoted Durova. Whether it was an email list, a
Wikipedia list, a Wikia list, or what-- that I have never known. I
honestly thought it would be useful to the project to know what forum
was involved, and I thought it would be helpful to ask pointed
questions on that subject.
Again, when I suggested the list had been used to collaborate, again,
I'm just quoting what Durova herself seems to confirm.
PrivateMusings asked if there has been any off-wiki collaboration,
Durova cites PM's query as evidence that "they" don't know about the
list. You needed be of any conspiratorial bent to somehow suspect
that, in Durova's mind at least, some "list they don't know exists" is
connected to "off-wiki collaboration". Durova's the one who privately
answered PM's query by referring to the list-- not me.
Look at it from my point of view, Jimbo. In the leaked "secret
evidence" email, Durova certainly 'appears' to have claimed there is
some list, somewhere, that was secret, that was being used for
collaboration.
I mean, we can all agree that is how things certain appear from an
outside vantage point, right? That's what all the fuss is about.
Durova didn't lose her bit for a 75 mins "oops" that she herself
corrected, after all. She didn't drop out of the election because
she accidently hit the wrong button, and Mercury didn't get 67 oppose
votes in less than five hours because he just accidently supported a
bad block. These things occurred because there was a very real
concern about how this block was made, who discussed it, where it was
discussed, what they said about it, and what similar discussions have
taken place.
From my point of view, that was a problem, and I just
wanted to lend a
hand to those who wanted it solved-- a group of people that,
judging
from the RFC and the election results, is quite massive. I didn't
create the problem, I didn't manufacture it, I didn't even uncover
it-- I just found it lying here, and thought I'd lend a hand at
solving it. And once I shut up about the problem (which I will do at
the conclusion of this email) , the concerns of the community won't
leave with me--- they'll still exist, until they are either answered
or forgotten.
--
To somebody who has been "in the loop" at all points, it may look like
transparency isn't a concern, because you forget how much was unknown.
First the reason for the !! block was secret. Then some details about
the reasons came out, but the specific the evidence was secret. Then
the general nature of the evidence was revealed, but the email was
secret. Then the email was leaked, but it was oversighted to try to
keep it secret. Then the email was mirrored, and the list referred to
in it was secret. Then the name of the cyberstalking list came out,
but the "other" list was secret. Then the investigations list came
out, but the membership was secret. Then the membership lists were
leaked, but the discussions were still secret. The "fives sleuths"
are still secret, or else Durova's fabrication of them is still
secret.
I discovered this bruhaha only at the end-- I personally was only
involved in the last few of those steps, But looking over the record,
it's clear that at every step, it was like pulling teeth.
I doubt a desysopping would have occured if Durova had just said
uprfont : Me, Jimbo, and n number of other admins are all part of a
private, heretofore unknown, "Cyberstalking" email list where we
discuss how to identify perpetators of cyberstalking. Two weeks ago, I
sent out this email full of evidence against !!-- here's a copy of
that email. In response, five admins, named a b c d and e, wrote me
back. They enthusiastically endorsing the block of !!, and here's a
copy of their reasoning.
If that had happened, would peope have assembled pitchforks and
torches and demanded a desysopping of Durova? I doubt it. But all
the cloak and dagger-- secret lists and secret evidence and secret
sleuths-- that's what caused the unrest.
And the unrest is still there. Because when every step is like
pulling teeth, people naturally assume there's a few teeth left
unpulled.
Now if you (Jimbo) genuinely believe the community has no concerns
about transparency and that there never were any secret lists, secret
collaborations, or secret sleuths-- well, hopefully you're right, and
you of course should know the community far far better than me, so
hopefully they're no problem then.
I can only say, in my defense, from where _I_ sat-- knowing only what
had been made public and looking over RFC, RFArs, and ArbcomElection
Results-- it looked like there was a very big problem, and great
concern among the community. . I did my best to get to the bottom of
it for the community. I actually assumed that except for a few bad
apples, practically everyone would appreciate the attempt, but in the
end, it seems quite a lot of people would rather some questions be
left unanswered, or at least, unasked, or at least, not asked by me in
the manner and form I've been asking them. I have officially been
told to shut the fuck up, I shall do so now.
We'll just have to live with the fact that we'll never know who all
endorsed the block of !!, what forum they endorsed it in, and what
similar actions they've collaboratively endorsed, or whether Durova
made the whole thing up.
I think it would have been better for the project for to have gotten
to the bottom of it-- to find out just who endorsed what, when then
endorsed it, where they endorsed it, why they endorsed it, and what
else they've endorsed. Durova's RFC seemed to me to be a massive
Request for Answers-- I would have thought it best to find the answers
and publicize them But I'm just a two-bit article editor who can't
even figure out how to save his Visio-created .PNGs into .SVGs-- who
am I to argue about what's best for the project with the project's
founder?
Alec