In a message dated 1/15/2009 9:12:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
geniice(a)gmail.com writes:
Again depends where they are. But yes any American can do that with
this stuff most of which I scanned:>>
--------------
yes.... that's my point.
You scanned it.
You scanned it from PD documents.
So this example only repeats what I've been saying.
What I want you to do, is go find some web site and copy their stuff, and
then post it to Commons :)
do that
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In a message dated 1/15/2009 7:53:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
geniice(a)gmail.com writes:
Which effectively kicks out sweat of the brow. Sweat of the brow is on
it's own non creative.>>
False. Sweat of the brow discusses effort.
Creativity and effort can both exist, or neither exist, or one.
They are independent variables.
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In a message dated 1/15/2009 9:06:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
morven(a)gmail.com writes:
Plenty of companies make money from things that they cannot control
exclusive access to. If they provide a service worth money, they will
remain profitable.>>
Name one
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We have always had the problem of how to access pd documents that might be
sitting in some repository like for example the US Federal Census.
Until ancestry and genealogy, starting scanning them in, you had to *go* to
a Federal Archives (or similar repository) and sit *there* and view them
during their hours and under their control.
Now that net sites have begun uploading those documents so we can conviently
view them, you want to steal them. That's not very nice.
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In a message dated 1/15/2009 8:55:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
morven(a)gmail.com writes:
is recorded is property, yes, but nobody is being deprived of
property.
It is not theft any more than breathing the air within their building
would be theft.
-Matt
----------------------------
They are not creating air.
Please use an example that makes more sense.
These companies are in the business of providing these images.
Without this business, they cease to exist, and the images cease.
So who wins that ?
Nobody wins. We all lose.
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But that's the way it's *always* been.
What you want, is for me or some library or google or whoever, to do all the
heavy lifting work, by scanning thousands or hundreds of thousands of pages
of material, and then to just... steal it.
That is essentially what you are saying.
Once you've done all the work, tough, go spin, we'll do whatever we want
with your work.
That isn't what the court case you keep citing says you can do.
Not at all.
Will
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In a message dated 1/15/2009 7:52:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
geniice(a)gmail.com writes:
Against that you have to consider that granting copyright in such
cases effectively allows someone who can limit the physical access to
the document to enjoy all the benefits of copyright even though they
didn't create it.
Sometimes the access control doesn't mean much. New popular edition
maps are cheap. So acquiring them to scan does not present a major
problem. Older less mass produced maps? 10K+. In effect you prevent
large parts of the public domain ever being meaningfully PD.>>
That doesn't make sense to me.
How do you limit PD items?
How can I, direct the land office in my local county to *stop* giving copies
to people who walk in?
I can't.
If something is PD, then there is *some* where you can go or write or call
to get a copy.
You are confusing the *creation* of an image, with the *creation* of the
original document.
What we're discussing here is limiting the use of your creation, not the
original creation.
Unless you're actually proposing that PD-item scanners are actually buying
originals and then destroying all copies of them in the world except their
own. I really doubt that is occuring.
Will
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In a message dated 1/15/2009 6:46:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
geniice(a)gmail.com writes:
Since under US
law sweat of the brow does not give something copyright protection if
your scans are publicly available it is rather hard to get people to
pay anything for them.>>
-----------------------------------
You know perfectly well this is a "theory" of the law and the case law is
not clear.
And I hope you realize the chilling effect it gives to state that something
like Google Books has no protection for their out-of-copyright scans. That
Microsoft or whoever, can simply copy all of that material onto their own
servers and thumb their noses at Google.
That is what you're saying.
That theory would effectively end anyone attempting to upload PD anything of
significant value.
Sure people will upload little dribs and drabs but we'll not be getting
thousands of pages of census, and hundreds of thousands of pages of documents,
maps, etc, since anyone like yourself can just copy the entire contents, rehost
them, and place your own ads on your own server and make money off doing
virtually nothing.
This is what you want to happen on the internet?
This sounds like a good thing to you?
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In a message dated 1/15/2009 5:56:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tracy.poff(a)gmail.com writes:
My inexpert opinion is that convincing someone that they are required
to pay you to use the material bearing the false copyright notice
would be fraudulent intent, though I could be wrong.>>
------------------------------
Thank you for the text of that.
Don't you think it's a bit odd to claim, that someone can steal the work of
someone else for no payment whatsoever ? Copyright or no?
If I work, and place a claim of copyright on my work, and you just take it,
I really doubt that a *credible* excuse for theft is "he was claiming
copyright without a real copyright".
It's still theft of the work of someone else's effort.
It takes me a few dozen hours to scan the pages of a public domain work. I
have a perfect right to expect payment for someone else to use it. That
capitalism.
Will
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