Hey all,
I keep seeing lines in my away log complaining about me being lazy and
not setting IRC cloaks, and about people offering their assistance (in
response to kinder notes of me just being busy). I thought I would
clear the situation up. I am on wikibreak at present for most of my
roles but I am still completely dedicated to being our most active IRC
Group Contact (James is also active, but less so) and so this is not
the issue. The reason why no cloaks are being set at present is
different.
Essentially, James and I are trying to redo our paperwork with
freenode to make sure that we are allowed to set the cloaks we do and
also to add new namespaces by popular request, such as wikiversity/
cloaks. The freenode head of staff is the person responsible for
sorting this paperwork with us and unfortunately she has been
indisposed due to injury for some weeks now. This means that we have
been unable to do what we need to do and as a result cloaks are just
sitting in the request system. However, as soon as things are sorted
out *I will set every cloak (assuming it meets the requirements) in
the system in one fell swoop!*
Please be patient and considerate while these problems are sorted out.
Rest assured there is no laziness involved!
Thanks,
[[m:User:Sean Whitton]]
[[m:IRC Group Contacts|Wikimedia IRC Group Contact]]
In a message dated 2/24/2008 6:23:11 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
nawrich(a)gmail.com writes:
So I admit its irritating, but there doesn't seem to be a better
alternative. If you'd prefer that the policy went back to its original form,
that is I suppose a valid opinion that simply lacks consensus or approval
from WMF.>>
-----------------------------
Policy is made by us. Not by the foundation.
We do not require their approval to change it.
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In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:19:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
geniice(a)gmail.com writes:
Please provide a reasoning for your disagreement.>>
------------------------------
BetaCommandBot is doing something for which we have, no specific rule, and
no specific method outlined to address it.
Please refer to
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Betacomman
d_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Betacommand)
*before* you respond so you can gain a proper background into what exactly
is the issue.
Please note the number of established editors who see BCB as a problem.
Simply ignoring their input, does not solve the situation. It's a real
situation and we should not ignore it.
Will Johnson
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In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:23:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
toddmallen(a)gmail.com writes:
Wikipedia is not censored>>
---------------------
Based on a discussion we had a bit ago on the Village Pump (I think) or
maybe Policy and Guidelines... at any rate someone brought up that it is in
fact censored. That is, we censor fringe-talk and crazy-talk and vandalism...
I had suggested maybe "Wikipedia is not censored for moral outrage" which
nicely (I think) covers both religious outrage and political outrage. Maybe.
At any rate, I agree with you.
Will Johnson
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In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:58:19 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dgerard(a)gmail.com writes:
I don't question that you're convinced there's a serious
issue, but you clearly won't or can't explain yourself coherently, and
it's hardly anyone else's obligation to do so.>>>
------------------------------
It is all laid out very clearly on the page I linked.
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In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:23:53 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
george.herbert(a)gmail.com writes:
Betacommand is actually rather
prompt about fixing those if they're reported to them.>>
--------------------------------------------------
Yes evidently his initial response of "it's all bullshit" was when he was
forgetting that he should be addressing concerns in his bot, I suppose.
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In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:41:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
geniice(a)gmail.com writes:
Now either produce an
evidence based logical objection that you are prepared to defend or
admit you can't.>>
--------------------------------
I point you to the page I referenced earlier.
There are still concerns, still unanswered, or just dismissed as
non-concerns.
Repeating that there are no concerns, doesn't address the concerns.
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In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:35:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dgerard(a)gmail.com writes:
I eagerly await you making the actual issue clear, because so far your
answers in this thread have dodged every possible attempt by several
people to actually pin them down to a credible complaint.>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
The link provided gives ample evidence of the issues, and how BC responded
to them.
When bots are automatically given precedence over the issues raised by
established editors, and those editors valid issues are dismissed in favor of
bots, then the project has gone off-track.
Read over the page, bearing in mind that the concerns raised *just might be*
valid, instead of assuming that all the editors with concerns are just a
pack of whiners :)
Anytime we have super-secret code, making hundreds of thousands of edits to
an "open" project, we have a problem. I'm not the only one to see it.
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In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:34:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dgerard(a)gmail.com writes:
So, Betacommand understands WP:NONFREE and his bot appears to behave
according to said rules, and he promptly fixes reports of it not doing
so, and there is no credible evidence of him violating policy.>>
------------------------------------------------------------
I don't agree with A, or B, or C, or D :)
The mere fact that a person is not violating a particular policy is not
sufficient to excuse all their behaviour.
------------------------------------------------------------
However, there is a page which (when I looked) was almost entirely
made of complaints from people who clearly don't understand WP:NONFREE
and are upset at therefore being ignored.>>
------------------------------------------------------------
Then you're not understanding the underlying complaint. The issue is not
over not understanding WP:Nonfree. That is not why they are bringing up
remarks.
------------------------------------------------------------
So is your complaint that people who don't get it and/or don't want to
are upset in vast numbers?>>
------------------------------------------------------------
No David. But you're welcome to try again to see what the complaint
actually is.
Will
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In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:27:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
george.herbert(a)gmail.com writes:
Please provide a link to the specific evidence, of Betacommandbot making
tags which are policy uncompliant.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------
Not the issue. Please focus on the issue.
Thanks.
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