WikiEN-l October 2008

wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org

78 participants
168 discussions

Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 27 Oct '08

27 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/26/2008 9:14:59 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, arromdee(a)rahul.net writes: So why don't we just let him fix the Wikipedia article, and consider the Wikipedia correction to be the subject self-publishing the correction?>> -------------------------- Ken why don't you go "fix" the George Bush article and claim that you are in-fact George Bush? **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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SOS Children Wikipedia Selection 2008/9 BitTorrent link up
by David Gerard 27 Oct '08

27 Oct '08

Instructions: http://www.soschildrensvillages.org.uk/charity-news/2008-wikipedia-for-scho… Torrent link: http://www.soschildrensvillages.org.uk/schools-wikipedia-full-20081023.tar.… Size of .tar.gz is 3.1 GB. - d.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 27 Oct '08

27 Oct '08

Choosing what goes into the header of a subject is always a matter of selection and discrimination on the part of each editor. Some people typically put all of a subject's occupation into the header. I don't. I think most people think of Francis Bacon as a philosopher even if he was also a mathematician, author, botanist, politician, courtier, military leader, teacher and astronomer. "Weight" is enforced by the multitude of editors adding and changing articles. Once it becomes apparent that part of a header doesn't belong, we are each, and all able to fix it. But that doesn't make putting something into the header an "error" or "inaccurate", it's more a question of emphasis. Will Johnon **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 26 Oct '08

26 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/26/2008 12:17:11 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, nawrich(a)gmail.com writes: The good news is that everyone agrees that controversial information about a living person should be well sourced or removed from any article on Wikipedia.>> -------------------------------- Yes and no. It revolves more on "controversial" in this case. Jaron Lanier was a director, he admits that himself. A source called him a director. His own now-published position is that he only directed one small portion of an experimental film (or something like that). So it's more a weight matter. Regardless, was the original source reliable? It's statement is factual, if perhaps unweighted. But we have no way to tell that, without a counter-weight. So the issue isn't as clear. Will Johnson **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 26 Oct '08

26 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/26/2008 9:14:59 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, arromdee(a)rahul.net writes: Demanding that he get an error about himself fixed in another source is just a hoop to force him to jump through. The idea that this source will do identity checking that we don't is just a legal fiction.>> -------------------- So you're actually advocating a position that a magazine would do an interview with "Bill Gates" without in-fact checking that the person is actually "Bill Gates"? Doesn't that seem a little bit of a radical position? Will Johnson **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 25 Oct '08

25 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/22/2008 8:11:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, arromdee(a)rahul.net writes: If our policy demands that someone corrects errors about themselves by getting the correct information published in a secondary source first, that policy is broken. It is doubly broken if the justification for this policy is that a secondary source would do fact-checking, when most secondary sources in this situation wouldn't. Having conflict of interest rules prevent someone from correcting errors about himself is another broken policy.>> --------------------------- Firstly, our articles are not about "corrections" because they are not about "errors". Attribution isn't truth, so it can't be in error. The only way for an attribution to be in error is to mis-quote it. Making it a meta-error. The error being about the wording, not about the underlying meaning. We do not require someone to publish in a secondary source in order to quote them. We quote primary sources as well. However the essential point should be raised first in a secondary source, and then the primary source can be used to enlarge or clarify the secondary. Secondly, we do not assume that a secondary source "would do fact-checking". Rather our policy clearly (or should clearly) state that we *use* those secondary sources who *are known for* doing fact-checking. Just because "News of the World" is a newspaper does not mean we consider it a reliable source. So it would fail. Thirdly our COI rules do not prevent a person from changing their own biography. We only request that they change it in a way consistent with the way other editors must work. That is, that they become "expert editors" of their own biography, using sources. Finally, as others have pointed out, we have no way of knowing whether an editor is who-they-claim-to-be. So they should, firstly, post their material to their own *official* website and then perhaps it can be quoted. This has happened in many cases. If they decline, then that is not our concern, apparently it's not important enough for them to do the obvious. Will Johnson **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Jeff Merkey threatens to sue Wikipedia and Wikipedians
by Daniel R. Tobias 24 Oct '08

24 Oct '08

It's right here in the BADSITE: http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=20784 Merkey says he's planning on suing the Wikimedia Foundation, the individual members of ArbCom, and possibly other admins or editors. He's claiming that he has some kind of agreement (with the Foundation? with Jimbo? it's unclear) that prevents anybody connected with Wikipedia from banning him, so that his banning was a contractual violation; he also claims that banning him from Wikipedia was an act of stalking or harassment. Is there the slightest bit of truth to his claims of the existence of a "settlement agreement" between him and Wikimedia, or is this just entirely a pile of manure? -- == Dan == Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/ Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/ Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Sarah Palin in popular culture
by Flameviper Velifang 24 Oct '08

24 Oct '08

Message: 3 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:44:16 -0500 From: "Charlotte Webb" <charlottethewebb(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] "Citation needed" in popular culture To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Message-ID: <4286fc440810231044o3eeda97bhe5eadc1ab8aaac03(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 On 10/22/08, Kevin Wong <wikipedianmarlith(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I call dibs on writing that article once it gets notable enough. If any Americans still read this mailing list I triple-dog dare them to unfurl a [citation needed] banner at a large rally before the presidential candidate of their choosing. ?C.W. Any one of my high school assemblies would do quite well for this, actually.. For instance, "studies have shown that 90% of people who use drugs die instantly".

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Fwd: SOS Children Wikipedia Selection 2008/9 BitTorrent link up
by Andrew Cates 24 Oct '08

24 Oct '08

I have just been sent this. I wasn't subscribed to this particular list but am not. The reply below is a brief summary. Hi Guys, I have left a fairly full reply to this on the WMF blog awaiting approval from Jay and also it is discussed on the project pages on Wikipedia, over several years. There is a gap between the wording of licenses and urban myths circulating about what they say. Broadly the GFDL demands that authors are "credited" but does not include anything on how you identify them (unlike the creative commons licenses). Either this means to comply with GFDL you need to carry a local copy of the edit history (which provides the only local way of identifying authors, albeit in a tedious fashion) including all >10,000 versions of the Global Warming article complete with every piece of obscene vandalism etc.) or this means you have to credit authors providing a theoretically possible route to identify them (not just include them in a long list of possibles). Nothing in between this is any better than the second option since to find an author for a piece of text you still have to go to the page history on Wikipedia. The German DVD which carries an author list copy locally which may be better for egos (or not, since it does imply the authors are responsibly) but is not more compliant than us: to get the author who wrote xyz is still a long trip through WP page histories. There is no different in license terms between a link back and any other way given of directing the reader to the page histories in Wikipedia. GFDL does not mention "link" (see Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License) Some of the CC licenses include carrying a local copy of an artists preferred name (we do this as we carry the image pages). GFDL does not. We also incidentally do not carry references or sources and leave the individual to find these at Wikipedia in the same way. Andrew On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 11:29 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> > Date: 2008/10/24 > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] SOS Children Wikipedia Selection 2008/9 > BitTorrent link up > To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > > > 2008/10/24 Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen(a)shaw.ca>: >> David Gerard wrote: >>> Instructions: >>> http://www.soschildrensvillages.org.uk/charity-news/2008-wikipedia-for-scho… >>> >>> Torrent link: >>> http://www.soschildrensvillages.org.uk/schools-wikipedia-full-20081023.tar.… >>> >>> Size of .tar.gz is 3.1 GB. >> >> Good idea but bad implementation - they're not compliant with the GFDL >> as far as I can tell. The articles have no author lists or backlinks to >> the edit histories on Wikipedia. Not sure if backlinks would actually be >> sufficient for a mirror intended for offline browsing, for that matter. >> >> I've put them on the list over at >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mirrors_and_forks/Abc#2008.2F9_Wikip…> >> but I haven't the time or energy to do proper follow up this weekend, >> anyone else want to take a stab? > > Someone mentioned that in a new thread as well. I agree, it doesn't > look compliant. I never thought to check since it was being organised > by a Wikipedia Admin... That admin reads this mailing list, so > hopefully we'll get some comment soon. > > _______________________________________________ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >

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Andrew Keen continues to be teflon clueless
by David Gerard 23 Oct '08

23 Oct '08

http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=556&doc_id=166342& "So how will today's brutal economic climate change the Web 2.0 "free" economy? It will result in the rise of online media businesses that reward their contributors with cash; it will mean the success of Knol over Wikipedia, Mahalo over Google (Nasdaq: GOOG), TheAtlantic.com over the HuffingtonPost.com, iTunes over MySpace, Hulu over YouTube Inc. , Playboy.com over Voyeurweb.com, TechCrunch over the blogosphere, CNN's professional journalism over CNN's iReporter citizen-journalism... The hungry and cold unemployed masses aren't going to continue giving away their intellectual labor on the Internet in the speculative hope that they might get some "back end" revenue. "Free" doesn't fill anyone's belly; it doesn't warm anyone up. " If only the economic downturn would eliminate the market for Andrew Keen. - d.

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WikiEN-l October 2008