WikiEN-l October 2008

wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org

78 participants
168 discussions

Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/28/2008 2:54:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, scs(a)eskimo.com writes: Sure. So any sentence in that article, if contested, could reasonably be deleted until a source was found.>> -------------- Maybe. That seems awfully strong. Most of the time, what we actually do is remove statements that might be insulting, embarrasing, objectionable (to the common person), etc. Calling someone a "film director" is hardly insulting. I would add a {{fact}} tag however, that seems reasonable. **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/28/2008 12:52:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, snowspinner(a)gmail.com writes: Please point to which part of that article is a source for the claim that he is a filmmaker.>> ------------ Okay I retract my claim that it was sourced. However the article has no footnotes whatsoever, so that same claim, i.e. that nothing is sourced, could be made about every sentence in the article. I don't see have this side-issue advances the situation however. Which still remains, that we cannot verify that a particular editor is the BLP subject. **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/28/2008 12:52:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, snowspinner(a)gmail.com writes: I am not saying anything of the sort.>> ---------------- You said Phil, that you did not see the difference between verifying a person's identity and verifying the identity of the subject. Perhaps you did not realize that I was referring strictly to an editor who claims to be the subject of a BLP. **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/28/2008 2:27:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, scs(a)eskimo.com writes: You made the unfounded leap that "the Subject of a BLP should be treated differently than all other editors". That's what Snowspinner was not claiming.>> ---------------------- Anybody, Jaron included, could have added a {{fact}} tag to "film director" and in the course of my meanderings, I would have eventually gotten to it, to wipe the clause. Not that I'm the only person who patrols the fact tag. But that would have been *yet another* way to handle the situation, within our current methodology. Will Johnson **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] WP articles citing other WP articles??
by WJhonson＠aol.com 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

I have to say that what I would do in this case is merely replace the footnoted citation with an inline citation to the article such as "blah blah blah (see [[this article]])." Will Johnson **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/28/2008 1:24:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, arromdee(a)rahul.net writes: Novice to the Internet isn't the same as novice to Wikipedia.>> ------------------------- Since this conversation has taken so many turns. Why is it, that we're even discussing this matter which occurred.... two years ago ? **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] WP articles citing other WP articles??
by K. Peachey 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Al Tally <majorly.wiki(a)googlemail.com> wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Angela Anuszewski < >> angela.anuszewski(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Nope, Wikipedia should never be used as a citation. >> >> -- >> Alex >> (User:Majorly) Alot of articles cite different episode articles because they show the plot and certain major points about the episode since not many web pages specialize in that. Eg: it might be hard to find a webpage that can be used to reference something like "Veronica mars first used Mac's computer skills in "Like a virgin" (Season One/Episode 8) to track down the person making the fake tests" but citing [[Like a Virgin (Veronica Mars)]] would be/should be ok since it explains it.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

The welcome wagon died a long long time ago. You could revive it. In this particular case, Jaron Lanier is NO NOVICE to the internet. I wish people would acquaint themselves with the facts. The vast majority of BLP subjects figure out *some* way to maneuver the system. But by all means, if someone wants to patrol BLPs looking for the *possibilty* that some random editor is the subject figure out a way to do it. Complaining about it, doesn't solve anything. In a message dated 10/28/2008 7:12:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gmaxwell(a)gmail.com writes: We could have gotten better results if we listened and used that information to guide our search for verifiable information or if we communicated our limitations and concerns to the person complaining. **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

It was not unsourced. It was sourced. And "false" has no position. Neither does "truth". In a message dated 10/28/2008 6:56:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scs(a)eskimo.com writes: Why is anyone defending our failure to remove an unsourced false BLP fact? **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Slashdot article
by WJhonson＠aol.com 28 Oct '08

28 Oct '08

In a message dated 10/28/2008 6:44:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, snowspinner(a)gmail.com writes: would ask how "whether we can verify that they are the subject" is in any way a substantively different issue than "whether we can verify their identity," >> ------------------ Of course! It's the entire point! You don't verify my identity in order to approve of edit I make. You review my edits and say OK I won't revert that it looks good. I have no particular position of privilege on any article (afaik). However the Subject of a BLP you are claiming should be treated differently than all other editors. That is, we should take their word as a source in order to modify their own articles. And not only should we do that (which we already do in part), but we should do it, without even the ability to determine that they are *in fact* the subject of that BLP in the first place. Yes verifying some editor's identify is quite different from verifying that they are the Subject of the Article. Will Johnson **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

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WikiEN-l October 2008