WikiEN-l October 2004

wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org

101 participants
246 discussions

RE: [WikiEN-l] Drive-by deletion
by Carson, David 22 Oct '04

22 Oct '04

NSK wrote: > In my wiki I expect the maintainers/authors to prove the validity of their > writings preferably with external links, but this is different from WP > because anons are not allowed. I don't see what difference it makes whether an editor is anonymous or whether they created an account. > You cannot expect from an anon to explain why an article is relevant. > Anons usually don't even read the policy or they may have just found WP > from Altavista, Yahoo or Google. > > If you could disallow anons, I think you could implement a policy to > require editors to explain why their edits are legit, otherwise they would > be reverted. It's pretty clear that we can't EXPECT anyone to read any policy. It would be nice - you can't get to the edit box on the edit page without skipping over a bunch of links to things that you are asked to read BEFORE creating your first article - but experience has shown that you can never force anyone to RTFA before they jump in. And given that fact, the only two solutions I can see are: 1. Delete a lot of crap that people were asked not to create 2. Alter our community standards so we don't mind having a lot of crap, and stop asking people not to create it Cheers! David... _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ This email and its attachments are for the sole use of the addressee and may contain information which is confidential and/or legally privileged. This email and its attachments are subject to copyright and should not be partly or wholly reproduced without the consent of the copyright owner. Any unauthorised use of disclosure of this email or its attachments is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please immediately delete it from your system and notify the sender by return email.

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Trigger-happy New Pages patrol
by Anthony DiPierro 22 Oct '04

22 Oct '04

> Perhaps a pre-condition to adminhood should be a proven ability to deal > fairly with others. But that wasn't the problem. I don't blame the admin with not dealing fairly with others. I can't even say for sure whether the admin broke any policies. The problem isn't the admin. The problem is that admins are given discretion over such things in the first place. Speedy deletions should be reserved for indisputably bad articles - articles that no one would seriously oppose the deletion of. Of course, deletion was supposed to be reserved for such articles as well, but it's devolved into a popularity contest which defines 2/3 as consensus. Fortunately, it's usually possible to export an article before it's deleted via VfD. Unfortunately, it's rarely possible to export a speedy deletion before it's been deemed unworthy. It has been proposed on the pump (one of them) that deleted articles be available for editors to view, but as one of our members of the Board of Directors opposes it it's unlikely to happen. Anthony

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RE: [WikiEN-l] Re: Caching issues
by Poor, Edmund W 22 Oct '04

22 Oct '04

Sherlock, Please refrain from making personal remarks to other list participants. ESPECIALLY when the 'other guy' seems to have started it. Ed Poor List Admin Emeritus > don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Stopping too speedy speedy deletions
by Allan Crossman 22 Oct '04

22 Oct '04

> Let's make a policy. The policy goes like this: > > "If an administrator speedily deletes an article and it then turns out > that the article in question was not a real candidate for speedy > deletion, that administrator is awarded a point. > > If an administrator gets more than 3 points during a 3 months period, > that administrator loses admin privilegies." Unfair; sysops who do a lot of speedy deletions are more likely to be awarded "points". It's the ratio of mistakes to good actions that counts, not the number of mistakes. -- Allan Crossman - a.crossman(a)blueyonder.co.uk The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (64% of Full)

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RE: [WikiEN-l] Caching issues
by Poor, Edmund W 22 Oct '04

22 Oct '04

> From: csherlock(a)ljh.com.au [mailto:csherlock@ljh.com.au] > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 10:46 PM > I find that I'm updating articles and the changes are not > always being > reflected straight away. Has anyone else been having this problem? Yes, quite a lot. It makes me think about developing my own off-line editing software, just so I can see my changes. Has anyone written or tried anything along these lines, that's good for when the lag becomes annoying? Ed Poor (A software developer in another life)

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Re: Hateful ban shows that Wikipedia is flawed almost beyond hope
by Sheldon Rampton 22 Oct '04

22 Oct '04

TBSDY wrote: >Terrible idea. They pay a donation and then think this gives them >permission to do what they like on the 'pedia. I cannot agree with this >idea. That wasn't my idea at all. What I described was a system whereby problematic posters would be required to pay a small amount of money for every edit they make. Right now they ALREADY have "permission to do what they like on the 'pedia," for free. My payment system idea isn't something I'm proposing IN PLACE OF existing mechanisms for arbiting and restricting vandalism. It would be something IN ADDITION TO. --Sheldon Rampton

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Technical help urgently needed
by Charles Podles 21 Oct '04

21 Oct '04

Today I moved the deletion log to [[Wikipedia:Deletion log archive/October 2004 (2)]] (as it had reached nearly a megabyte) and accidentally moved its talk page along with it. I moved the talk page back while leaving the archive in place, but that archive is a reflexive redirect whose only history entry is: 21:26, 21 Oct 2004 Mirv (Wikipedia:Deletion log moved to Wikipedia:Deletion log archive/October 2004 (2)) which means I've effectively destroyed all entries in the deletion log between October 11 (the time of its last archiving) and today. How did I do this? Where did the archive go? Can it be fixed or recovered? --A red-faced [[User:Mirv]]

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Caching issues
by Mark Pellegrini 21 Oct '04

21 Oct '04

Rickk said "A problem with this, especially if you use a word processing program instead of a text editor, is that special characters, especially quotation marks, come up garbled when they get pasted back." In the past, we have used a bot to fix these. --Mark

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Re: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 15, Issue 48
by dpbsmith＠verizon.net 21 Oct '04

21 Oct '04

Others noted: > >>I find that I'm updating articles and the changes are not > >>always being > >>reflected straight away. Has anyone else been having this problem? > >> > Odd, I've never noticed this. A shift-reload always gets me the latest > version every time I've tried... I've noticed this problem, rather suddenly, beginning several days ago. For time, I've noticed a significant lag between updating VfD discussions and the update being reflected on the main VfD page, but assumed that had something to do with the complex interrelationships between all the template stuff. The characteristics are different from other caching issues in the past. The chief symptom is I edit a page, press "Save this page", and do not see my updates. For a while I thought I was previewing and then failing to save, or accidentally hitting cancel, but that's not it. Shift-reload does NOT work for me. The chief characteristics are: the history IS updated; a diff on the update DOES show the page; and an "edit this page" does show the updates in the edit box. But simply viewing the page does not show them.

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Trigger-happy New Pages patrol
by Anthony DiPierro 21 Oct '04

21 Oct '04

>> Yes, rapid fire drive-by-deletion is out of control. > Just because rapid-fire nonsense substub creation is out of control. Like [[Geno's_Steaks]]? Was that a substub? It was marked with {{deletebecause|it lacks encyclopedic content}}, speedy deleted, listed on VfU, undeleted, and received a unanimous vote to keep on VfD. Speedy deletion has gotten completely out of hand. Yes, our deletion system needs to be fixed, and I think the number of people who agree with me that VfD is broken is rising, but letting admins unilaterally decide what gets deleted is not the solution.

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WikiEN-l October 2004