>
>Gareth Owen wrote:
>
>>In todays Guardian -- a major British broadsheet newspaper -- Notes and
>>Queries column (the version published on dead trees, rather than the
>>website)
>>a correspondent cites www.wikipedia.org as an authority on various Dukes
>>Of
>>Edinburgh. Might draw a little traffic.
>>
>What's interesting about this is what it tells us about the kinds of
>article that draw traffic. I have no doubt that the information mentioned
>there about the Dukes of Edinburgh is available on other sites, but we have
>it organized in one spot in a comprehensive way. Certain of our "List of"
>articles may seem trite and unimaginative, but I believe that they have an
>attraction for people who want this kind of summary information in one
>place, rather than going on an internet wild-goose chase. These chases are
>frustrating enough for experienced searchers, and impossible for others.
>
>Ec
Wiki is weak in some areas but when it is good, (and the Duke of Edinburgh
page is a classic example) it is very very good indeed. There are so many
pages on wiki that are far far better than any other encyclopædia I have
ever seen. And we can be so proud of what we have built and what we are
building. When a heavily academic article is praised in a paper as credible
as The Guardian, you know you are doing a damn good job.
JT
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
In todays Guardian -- a major British broadsheet newspaper -- Notes and
Queries column (the version published on dead trees, rather than the website)
a correspondent cites www.wikipedia.org as an authority on various Dukes Of
Edinburgh. Might draw a little traffic.
Kudos to
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Edinburgh
--
Gareth Owen
"Wikipedia does rock. By the count on the "brilliant prose" page, there
are 14 not-bad articles so far" -- Larry Sanger (12 Jan 2001)
This message from Politics: The Bully Pulpit on DelphiForums.com was forwarded to
you by 2MINUTESHATE.
You can view it in the context of the entire discussion by going to:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/bully/messages/?msg=25069.8
To view 2MINUTESHATE's Profile, visit
http://www.delphiforums.com/dir-app/showprofile.asp?uname=2MINUTESHATE
======== 2MINUTESHATE says to you ========
This one advocates it.
=======================Forwarded Message=======================
Forum: the Politics: The Bully Pulpit Forum
Subject: My Wikipedia Rant
From: John (CHICAGOJOHN)
To: Fish (FFFFFFFFFISH)
DateTime: 8/25/2003 12:56:22 PM
ROFL!!!
I just went there. That was awesome!
I'm tempted to go there and adjust some of my favorite definitions.
John
=================================================
DelphiForums.com: Home to the Web's most vibrant
online communities. Explore more than 100,000 Forums
or create your own at http://www.delphiforums.com
=================================================
A while ago some bright spark thought to put a DIV around the statement
of maths theorems, with a dashed purple border.
Today it's boxes with coloured borders for disambiguation notes.
Here's why these are bad ideas:
Firstly, Wikipedia is a wiki. That means source text should be as light
on markup as possible. Knowing HTML should not be a prerequisite. We
currently have HTML for tables and floated images -- this is something
to be dealt with, not taken as a springboard for more. Besides, tables
and floated images serve a purpose, which leads to:--
Secondly, wiki markup is structural. This is one of its great strengths:
in accomplishes in one fell swoop the whole HTML/CSS separation of
content and presentation.
Thirdly, there is the aesthetics of it. Wikipedia thrives on simplicity.
Anyone can write a plain text article. Granted, there are certain style
guidelines, but do we really want to add purple borders to the manual of
style? Is the instigator of these pretty tweaks really going to go round
every single page to bring them into line? Which bring me to:
Fourthly: common sense. Suppose we *do* want a purple border around a
theorem, or a pink background to a disambiguation notice. This is *not*
the way to do it. If we really wanted this, we'd set these colours in
the stylesheet (because that is where presentational information
belongs) and we'd somehow tag paragraphs in an XML-like manner:
<disamb>This is a disamb.... etc </disamb>.
Though even that, IMO, would be bringing too much markup into the wiki
source.
Tarquin> We should probably put the following somewhere on a reference page
somewhere.
For undeletion, see [[wikipedia:votes for undeletion]], as pointed out by Anthere,
which already documents Allan Crossman's method (except it uses "%s", not
"PAGENAME"). Also, trying imagining an infuriated gnome hitting you over the head
with a big book while screaming "R T F M, DAMMIT!".
That said, if someone could add something on undoing moves to [[wikipedia:move]],
that'd be great. I'd copy Delirium's post, but for some godforsaken reason WikiEn-l
isn't GFDL'd.
Tim Starling> "it's currently not really clear what a banned user is meant to do to get
unbanned"
All sysops who perform IP blocks should include clear contact details on their user
page, allowing a blocked user to discuss the matter, and request unblocking. This is
particularly important when blocking dynamic IPs. Also, blocking sysops should know
how to unblock IPs as well.
Screw that, let's make contact details compulsorary for being a sysop. It'll spread out
liability when we all get sued for aiding and abetting Jimbo's world takeover.
Anthere> Perhaps it would be better that anyone practicing
deletion, knew how to practice undeletion as well
A splendid idea. I'll add something to [[wikipedia:deletion policy]]. I'd say "unless
there are any objections", but I haven't been flamed for being unilateral for a little
while, and I kinda miss it. :-)
Also, since Brion is posting helpful meatball links:
http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?CriticismIsFeedback
Which would be an excellent approach to reading [[user:Kat]], now she's left.
wikikarma: [[irreducible complexity]] (well, I like it)
-Martin "MyRedDice" Harper
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:08:17 +1000
From: "Tim Starling" <ts4294967296(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Michael again *sigh*
To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
Message-ID: <bit2vv$l1u$1(a)sea.gmane.org>
I've just made a change to the software which allows
sysops to ban
logged-in
users. See my post in wikitech-l for the technical
details. It is
currently
in CVS. Once it's live, it should be a great help for
dealing with
Michael.
-- Tim Starling.
Apart from the specific issue of Michael, what are the
rules to follow in terms of banning of a loggued in
user on the en wiki ?
Is it still supposed to be "sanctified" (I can't find
the exact proper word), or may sysop ban loggued-in
user just as they can ban ips ?
I suppose it was discussed somewhere, but I dunno
exactly
Will this be working on any wikipedia as well ?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
On 31 Aug 2003 at 21:16, wikien-l-request(a)Wikipedia.org wrote:
I've fixed the Penis page by undeletion and moving...
To undelete in Explorer, first bookmark this address:
http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Undelete&target=PAGENAME
Now, whenever you need to undelete, just go to that page (nothing bad happens
if you actually load it), change "PAGENAME" in the URL to the name of the page,
e.g. User:Scarequotes, and there you go.
Don't try using the Deletion log to get there, it takes forever to load,
usually.
Evercat
--
Allan Crossman - http://dogma.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
PGP keys - 0x06C4BCCA (new) || 0xCEC9FAE1 (compatible)
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 12:08:52 +1000
From: Tim Starling <ts4294967296(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Michael again *sigh*
To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
Message-ID: <3F52AA34.7010109(a)hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
format=flowed
Anthere asked:
>Will this be working on any wikipedia as well ?
That's a very good question. Currently the feature
can't be turned on
and off easily, but if you want I can easily fix it up
so that it can
be.
-- Tim Starling <tstarlingphysicsunimelbeduau>
No. Don't bother. I am pretty sure that if the french
wikipedia was asked, the majority of participants
would agree with that feature. Very useful tool to
shut up opposition :-) ( <- there is a smiley, that
means it is said with gentle irony)
But please, when this will be made live on
international wikipedias, could you indicate it on the
main list ?
It is a bit weird to say so, but I have not been
blocked for at least 6 months, so I do not quite know
what is right now written as a message to the blocked
person trying to edit :-) ( <- this just mean I have
not been vandalizing wikipedia enough recently, I
promise to make some effort to do so very soon in the
near future)
An ip was blocked on the fr wiki a couple of days ago,
after two poor edits on the main page ( <- I mean
newbie vandalism).
He apparently had to struggle to find somewhere the
email address of a sysop to be able to complain of his
treatment. The sysop then send the complaint to the
ML, where his message was blocked because sent from an
unusual email address non registered by the sysop. I
discovered the blocked email some hours later and then
authorized it. It then took a couple of hours more for
the user to receive an answer and explanation for the
blocking from us. Come to think of it, I am not sure
someone thought of unblocking the ip ...:-) (<- This
is meant to be a joke, I am sure the blocking sysop
thought of doing so)
If that had happened when I was on holidays, the
message would have been unblocked possibly three weeks
later :-((( ( <- I am serious here. In this case
Youssef was the recipient, but if the blocked person
had wrote to the ML directly, who would have
authorized his message ?).
I know you are all thinking of Michael here, and I
acknowledge this concern, but Michael is not the only
one who gets blocked.
could it be possible that a blocked person (an ip or a
loggued in user) be offered the way to communicate ?
Either by offering a direct link to the mailing list,
where the message would be recognised and could
automatically get through ?
Or could the banned person have no right to edit
anything but one page where she could voice her
concern ? Perhaps her user page or histalk page ?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:31:48 -0700
From: Toby Bartels <toby+wikipedia(a)math.ucr.edu>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Michael again *sigh*
To: Discussion list for English-language Wikipedia
<wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
<20030831213148.GF2876(a)math-lw-n01.ucr.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Will this be working on any wikipedia as well ?
I don't know. Would you want it on [[fr:]]?
-- Toby
Me ? No :-)))
Or Utilisateur:Papotages would have been banned before
I was back from my holidays :-)
I think several french would be very happy to have
that feature. But there was never any serious
discussion since we considered a "fact" we could not.
Likely, f the feature is now possible, it will be
transfered.
Till now, we succeeded not to have any user name ever
banned (except perhaps Mulot, but that was in phase I,
I am still shivering in the memory of permanent
deletion). The reason probably is that Jimbo is not
able to follow some of the discussions.
If the feature is available, it will be used. And
probably not with Jimbo seal. Till now, conflict was
eventually "solved" through mass reversion and
protection of page. I suppose now it will perhaps be
through blocking.
It is easy to see on RC that a user is mass reverted.
It is not easy to see a page is protected (essentially
because people don't put headers, do not list it, and
others unprotect). But we may notice the user
protesting vehemently
However, if the user is blocked, we may not even
realise it (except for pure bliss coming down the
wikipedia after a fight). I wonder if it might not be
relevant to have somehow a warning somewhere telling
us that a user name has been blocked since last
connection. Otherwise, we might not notice and be able
to unblock him perhaps.
Just thoughts. Setting up blocking of names (which
will be block with the ip, so entirely prevent the
user to communicate with us) is just changing the
concept. It requires to adapt.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Sometimes, RickK, Anthere's tone can appear as an attack but it is usually
just because, as someone whose first language is not english, the fact that
she made be being ironic may not communicated clearly. Most people find it
difficult to express subtle nuances in languages other than their mother
tongue. (You should hear me trying to be ironic in french!!!)
Please remember, folks, Michael is the bad guy here. RickK like so many of
us was simply trying to undo Michael's vandalism. Don't let Michael create a
situation where, as well as regularly vandalising our site, he starts fights
among decent users over how to deal with him. RickK tried to do the right
thing in the wrong way. Most of have at some stage. The sooner the Michael
problem is dealt with the better for all of us.
JT
>
>I'm going to try very hard not to take that as an attack, but it's very
>hard to do.
>
>RickK
>
>Anthere <anthere6(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>Rick giantsrick13 at yahoo.com
>Sun Aug 31 14:02:43 UTC 2003
>
>
>I did the delete. I thought the original page's
>history stayed with the original name. Sorry. I
>don't know how to do an undelete or I'd do it. But
>then, how do you rename it so that it keeps the
>history? And it was Michael who did the move to begin
>with. He's decided to visit us again today.
>
>RickK
>
>Perhaps it would be better than anyone practicing
>deletion, knew how to practice undeletion as well :-)
>check here and good luck
>
>http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3AVotes_for_undeletion
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>WikiEN-l mailing list
>WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>_______________________________________________
>WikiEN-l mailing list
>WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail