Hi Denny,
I know everyone is still trying to organize this project but nevertheless we wanted to have some clarification about how WikiData will proceed in terms of representation of data embedded in wiki pages.
Several descriptor frameworks are available [0] and MediaWiki have seen some discussions about it before [1], [2] but since this project is about semantic data it would be nice to have directional guidance about how WikiData will proceed.
[0] http://manu.sporny.org/2011/uber-comparison-rdfa-md-uf/
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Parsoid/HTML5_DOM_with_microdata [2] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.wikitext/512
Cheers,
mwjames
Thanks James,
let me also draw attention on another comparison (for microdata et al):
www.w3.org/TR/html-data-guide/
In my view, the choice between RDFa and microdata should be based on what type of vocabulary the project will use. If the vocabularies are very very simple and we would, essentially, use a single vocabulary per page (or only a few) than the choice between microdata and RDFa 1.1 Lite becomes a question of taste in my view, they are comparable in complexity and expressive power. If the vocabulary becomes more complex, if we want to refer to and use several external vocabularies within the same page, then I would find RDFa 1.1 a better choice.
Bottom line: this decision can wait:-)
The problem with microformats is that we would have to define a bunch of vocabularies ourselves or map them to microformats even if those vocabularies exist already (eg, Dublin Core). An the mapping 'back' of the same pages into, say, RDF, becomes problematic again...
My 2 cents
Ivan
On Apr 1, 2012, at 06:40 , James HK wrote:
Hi Denny,
I know everyone is still trying to organize this project but nevertheless we wanted to have some clarification about how WikiData will proceed in terms of representation of data embedded in wiki pages.
Several descriptor frameworks are available [0] and MediaWiki have seen some discussions about it before [1], [2] but since this project is about semantic data it would be nice to have directional guidance about how WikiData will proceed.
[0] http://manu.sporny.org/2011/uber-comparison-rdfa-md-uf/
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Parsoid/HTML5_DOM_with_microdata [2] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.wikitext/512
Cheers,
mwjames
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
---- Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:40 AM, James HK jamesin.hongkong.1@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Denny,
I know everyone is still trying to organize this project but nevertheless we wanted to have some clarification about how WikiData will proceed in terms of representation of data embedded in wiki pages.
Several descriptor frameworks are available [0] and MediaWiki have seen some discussions about it before [1], [2] but since this project is about semantic data it would be nice to have directional guidance about how WikiData will proceed.
[0] http://manu.sporny.org/2011/uber-comparison-rdfa-md-uf/
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Parsoid/HTML5_DOM_with_microdata [2] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.wikitext/512
Cheers,
mwjames
This is of interest for the second phase of the project. So as Ivan said it indeed does still have some time.
Cheers Lydia
I'm the (for want of a better word) project lead for Microformats on en-Wikipedia.
How can I help?
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
I'm the (for want of a better word) project lead for Microformats on en-Wikipedia.
How can I help?
Hi Andy,
Is it this project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Microformats ?
Cheers Lydia
Yes (I was on my mobile so couldn't conveniently post a link, when I sent my last email; apologies.
en-WP already emits over a million microformats.
On 3 April 2012 13:22, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
I'm the (for want of a better word) project lead for Microformats on en-Wikipedia.
How can I help?
Hi Andy,
Is it this project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Microformats ?
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Community Communications for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Eisenacher Straße 2 10777 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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Andy,
chiming in late in this thread, can you give me some pointers on how you estimate this figure?
Thanks Dario
On Apr 3, 2012, at 5:32 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
Yes (I was on my mobile so couldn't conveniently post a link, when I sent my last email; apologies.
en-WP already emits over a million microformats.
On 3 April 2012 13:22, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
I'm the (for want of a better word) project lead for Microformats on en-Wikipedia.
How can I help?
Hi Andy,
Is it this project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Microformats ?
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Community Communications for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Eisenacher Straße 2 10777 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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By counting instances of the templates emitting microformats. For example, on en.WP, {{Coord}} alone emits 757,299 'geo' (coordinates) microformats [1]; {{Infobox settlement}} emits 273,300 hCard (place) microformats [2] - that's over a million, alone. {{Infobox person}} emits 105,623 hCard (biography) microformats [3]; {{Taxobox}} emits 197,363 species microformats [4], and there are hundreds more templates emitting smaller, but not inconsequential, numbers of microformats of the above and other types [5].
A further, vast, number of hCalendar (event) microformats are emitted, but without the required date metadata, because a long-requested bot task\ [6] remains unfulfilled. For example, {{Infobox album}} emits 110,712 hCalendar microformats - as well as another 110,712 complete hAudio microformats [7].
[1] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[2] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[3] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[4] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Templates_generating_microformats
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/SmackBot_X...
[7] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
On 9 April 2012 20:52, Dario Taraborelli dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andy,
chiming in late in this thread, can you give me some pointers on how you estimate this figure?
Thanks Dario
On Apr 3, 2012, at 5:32 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
Yes (I was on my mobile so couldn't conveniently post a link, when I sent my last email; apologies.
en-WP already emits over a million microformats.
On 3 April 2012 13:22, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
I'm the (for want of a better word) project lead for Microformats on en-Wikipedia.
How can I help?
Hi Andy,
Is it this project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Microformats ?
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Community Communications for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Eisenacher Straße 2 10777 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Thanks, I have worked with {{coord}} templates in the past but didn't have a good handle of the volume of transclusion of other microformat-enabled templates. Sad to hear about SmackBot XV, hope something can be done to resume the request.
Dario
On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:49 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
By counting instances of the templates emitting microformats. For example, on en.WP, {{Coord}} alone emits 757,299 'geo' (coordinates) microformats [1]; {{Infobox settlement}} emits 273,300 hCard (place) microformats [2] - that's over a million, alone. {{Infobox person}} emits 105,623 hCard (biography) microformats [3]; {{Taxobox}} emits 197,363 species microformats [4], and there are hundreds more templates emitting smaller, but not inconsequential, numbers of microformats of the above and other types [5].
A further, vast, number of hCalendar (event) microformats are emitted, but without the required date metadata, because a long-requested bot task\ [6] remains unfulfilled. For example, {{Infobox album}} emits 110,712 hCalendar microformats - as well as another 110,712 complete hAudio microformats [7].
[1] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[2] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[3] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[4] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Templates_generating_microformats
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/SmackBot_X...
[7] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
On 9 April 2012 20:52, Dario Taraborelli dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andy,
chiming in late in this thread, can you give me some pointers on how you estimate this figure?
Thanks Dario
On Apr 3, 2012, at 5:32 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
Yes (I was on my mobile so couldn't conveniently post a link, when I sent my last email; apologies.
en-WP already emits over a million microformats.
On 3 April 2012 13:22, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
I'm the (for want of a better word) project lead for Microformats on en-Wikipedia.
How can I help?
Hi Andy,
Is it this project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Microformats ?
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Community Communications for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Eisenacher Straße 2 10777 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Thank you, but unfortunately, the owner of that bot declines to do so. I have asked again [1].
Also, it's worth noting that, inexplicably, there is a small but vocal group of editors who resist anything to do with infoboxes, coordinates, microformats or metadata - sure to be a problem for this project, as it progresses.
For example, this RfC [2] (you might find it informative to compare the debate, especially my post, to the closing admin's summary). Other relevant URLs also supplied [3], including a debate which is live now [4].
I'd be happy to hear suggestions as to how to improve matters.
[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bot_requests#Conversion_to_date_templ...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Microformats
[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Audio#Apply_hAudio_microformat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Asbox/Archive_4#Add_.27bodyclass....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2008_Septe...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bot_requests/Archive_39#Convert_relea...
[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Classical_music#Mari...
On 9 April 2012 23:37, Dario Taraborelli dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks, I have worked with {{coord}} templates in the past but didn't have a good handle of the volume of transclusion of other microformat-enabled templates. Sad to hear about SmackBot XV, hope something can be done to resume the request.
Dario
On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:49 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
By counting instances of the templates emitting microformats. For example, on en.WP, {{Coord}} alone emits 757,299 'geo' (coordinates) microformats [1]; {{Infobox settlement}} emits 273,300 hCard (place) microformats [2] - that's over a million, alone. {{Infobox person}} emits 105,623 hCard (biography) microformats [3]; {{Taxobox}} emits 197,363 species microformats [4], and there are hundreds more templates emitting smaller, but not inconsequential, numbers of microformats of the above and other types [5].
A further, vast, number of hCalendar (event) microformats are emitted, but without the required date metadata, because a long-requested bot task\ [6] remains unfulfilled. For example, {{Infobox album}} emits 110,712 hCalendar microformats - as well as another 110,712 complete hAudio microformats [7].
[1] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[2] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[3] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[4] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Templates_generating_microformats
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/SmackBot_X...
[7] http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&namespace=1...
On 9 April 2012 20:52, Dario Taraborelli dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andy,
chiming in late in this thread, can you give me some pointers on how you estimate this figure?
Thanks Dario
On Apr 3, 2012, at 5:32 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
Yes (I was on my mobile so couldn't conveniently post a link, when I sent my last email; apologies.
en-WP already emits over a million microformats.
On 3 April 2012 13:22, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
I'm the (for want of a better word) project lead for Microformats on en-Wikipedia.
How can I help?
Hi Andy,
Is it this project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Microformats ?
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Community Communications for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Eisenacher Straße 2 10777 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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