Hi,
Last November, I started to clean up on the Glossary page on meta, as an attempt to revive it and expand it to include many technical terms, notably related to Wikimedia Engineering (see e-mail below).
There were (and are) already many glossaries spread around the wikis: * one for MediaWiki: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Glossary * one for Wikidata: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Glossary * one for Labs: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Terminology * two for the English Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Glossary & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiSpeak * etc.
My thinking at the time was that it would be better to include tech terms in meta's glossary, because fragmentation isn't a good thing for glossaries: The user probably doesn't want to search a term through a dozen glossaries (that they know of), and it would be easier if they could just search in one place.
The fact is, though, that we're not going to merge all the existing glossaries into one anytime soon, so overlap and duplication will remain anyway. Also, it feels weird to have tech content on meta, and the glossary is getting very long (and possibly more difficult to maintain). Therefore, I'm now reconsidering the decision of mixing tech terms and general movement terms on meta.
Below are the current solutions I'm seeing to move forward; I'd love to get some feedback as to what people think would be the best way to proceed.
* Status quo: We keep the current glossaries as they are, even if they overlap and duplicate work. We'll manage.
* Wikidata: If Wikidata could be used to host terms and definitions (in various languages), and wikis could pull this data using templates/Lua, it would be a sane way to reduce duplication, while still allowing local wikis to complement it with their own terms. For example, "administrator" is a generic term across Wikimedia sites (even MediaWiki sites), so it would go into the general glossary repository on Wikidata; but "DYK" could be local to the English Wikipedia. With proper templates, the integration between remote and local terms could be seamless. It seems to me, however, that this would require significant development work.
* Google custom search: Waldir recently used Google Custom Search to created a search tool to find technical information across many pages and sites where information is currently fragmented: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-March/067450.html . We could set up a similar tool (or a floss alternative) that would include all glossaries. By advertising the tool prominently on existing glossary pages (so that users know it exists), this could allow us to curate more specific glossaries, while keeping them all searchable with one tool.
Right now, I'm inclined to go with the "custom search" solution, because it looks like the easiest and fastest to implement, while reducing maintenance costs and remaining flexible. That said, I'd love to hear feedback and opinions about this before implementing anything.
Thanks,
guillaume
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi,
The use of jargon, acronyms and other abbreviations throughout the Wikimedia movement is a major source of communication issues, and barriers to comprehension and involvement.
The recent thread on this list about "What is Product?" is an example of this, as are initialisms that have long been known to be a barrier for Wikipedia newcomers.
A way to bridge people and communities with different vocabularies is to write and maintain a glossary that explains jargon in plain English terms. We've been lacking a good and up-to-date glossary for Wikimedia "stuff" (Foundation, chapter, movement, technology, etc.).
Therefore, I've started to clean up and expand the outdated Glossary on meta, but it's a lot of work, and I don't have all the answers myself either. I'll continue to work on it, but I'd love to get some help on this and to make it a collaborative effort.
If you have a few minutes to spare, please consider helping your (current and future) fellow Wikimedians by writing a few definitions if there are terms that you can explain in plain English. Additions of new terms are much welcome as well:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Glossary
Some caveats:
- As part of my work, I'm mostly interested in a glossary from a
technical perspective, so the list currently has a technical bias. I'm hoping that by sending this message to a wider audience, people from the whole movement will contribute to the glossary and balance it out.
- Also, I've started to clean up the glossary, but it still contains
dated terms and definitions from a few years ago (like the FundCom), so boldly edit/remove obsolete content.
Guillaume Paumier, 22/03/2013 14:27:
- Status quo: We keep the current glossaries as they are, even if they
overlap and duplicate work. We'll manage.
Ugly.
- Wikidata: If Wikidata could be used to host terms and definitions
(in various languages), and wikis could pull this data using templates/Lua, it would be a sane way to reduce duplication, while still allowing local wikis to complement it with their own terms. For example, "administrator" is a generic term across Wikimedia sites (even MediaWiki sites), so it would go into the general glossary repository on Wikidata; but "DYK" could be local to the English Wikipedia. With proper templates, the integration between remote and local terms could be seamless. It seems to me, however, that this would require significant development work.
Will take years.
- Google custom search: Waldir recently used Google Custom Search to
created a search tool to find technical information across many pages and sites where information is currently fragmented: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-March/067450.html . We could set up a similar tool (or a floss alternative) that would include all glossaries. By advertising the tool prominently on existing glossary pages (so that users know it exists), this could allow us to curate more specific glossaries, while keeping them all searchable with one tool.
+1
Right now, I'm inclined to go with the "custom search" solution, because it looks like the easiest and fastest to implement, while reducing maintenance costs and remaining flexible. That said, I'd love to hear feedback and opinions about this before implementing anything.
Any solution that helps killing overlap and duplication is welcome. Having four slightly different versions of the same glossary (mediawiki.org, wikibooks, wikipedia, meta) plus countless accessories means that none does the job.
Nemo
Le 2013-03-22 14:27, Guillaume Paumier a écrit :
Hi, Below are the current solutions I'm seeing to move forward; I'd love to get some feedback as to what people think would be the best way to proceed.
Note that your solutions are not exclusives, we may as well chose to distribute ressources in each, so we have a working but not great solution right now, an easily implementable better solution on mean term, and a great solution on the long term.
Anyway glossary are a dictionnary topic, so this topic may really feed the wiktionary future brainstorm page[1].
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary_future
- Status quo: We keep the current glossaries as they are, even if
they overlap and duplicate work. We'll manage.
- Wikidata: If Wikidata could be used to host terms and definitions
(in various languages), and wikis could pull this data using templates/Lua, it would be a sane way to reduce duplication, while still allowing local wikis to complement it with their own terms. For example, "administrator" is a generic term across Wikimedia sites (even MediaWiki sites), so it would go into the general glossary repository on Wikidata; but "DYK" could be local to the English Wikipedia. With proper templates, the integration between remote and local terms could be seamless. It seems to me, however, that this would require significant development work.
- Google custom search: Waldir recently used Google Custom Search to
created a search tool to find technical information across many pages and sites where information is currently fragmented:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-March/067450.html . We could set up a similar tool (or a floss alternative) that would include all glossaries. By advertising the tool prominently on existing glossary pages (so that users know it exists), this could allow us to curate more specific glossaries, while keeping them all searchable with one tool.
Right now, I'm inclined to go with the "custom search" solution, because it looks like the easiest and fastest to implement, while reducing maintenance costs and remaining flexible. That said, I'd love to hear feedback and opinions about this before implementing anything.
Thanks,
guillaume
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi,
The use of jargon, acronyms and other abbreviations throughout the Wikimedia movement is a major source of communication issues, and barriers to comprehension and involvement.
The recent thread on this list about "What is Product?" is an example of this, as are initialisms that have long been known to be a barrier for Wikipedia newcomers.
A way to bridge people and communities with different vocabularies is to write and maintain a glossary that explains jargon in plain English terms. We've been lacking a good and up-to-date glossary for Wikimedia "stuff" (Foundation, chapter, movement, technology, etc.).
Therefore, I've started to clean up and expand the outdated Glossary on meta, but it's a lot of work, and I don't have all the answers myself either. I'll continue to work on it, but I'd love to get some help on this and to make it a collaborative effort.
If you have a few minutes to spare, please consider helping your (current and future) fellow Wikimedians by writing a few definitions if there are terms that you can explain in plain English. Additions of new terms are much welcome as well:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Glossary
Some caveats:
- As part of my work, I'm mostly interested in a glossary from a
technical perspective, so the list currently has a technical bias. I'm hoping that by sending this message to a wider audience, people from the whole movement will contribute to the glossary and balance it out.
- Also, I've started to clean up the glossary, but it still contains
dated terms and definitions from a few years ago (like the FundCom), so boldly edit/remove obsolete content.
(CC’ing translators-l also.)
Le Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:27:44 +0100, Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org a écrit:
Hi,
Last November, I started to clean up on the Glossary page on meta, as an attempt to revive it and expand it to include many technical terms, notably related to Wikimedia Engineering (see e-mail below).
There were (and are) already many glossaries spread around the wikis:
- one for MediaWiki: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Glossary
- one for Wikidata: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Glossary
- one for Labs: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Terminology
- two for the English Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Glossary & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiSpeak
- etc.
My thinking at the time was that it would be better to include tech terms in meta's glossary, because fragmentation isn't a good thing for glossaries: The user probably doesn't want to search a term through a dozen glossaries (that they know of), and it would be easier if they could just search in one place.
The fact is, though, that we're not going to merge all the existing glossaries into one anytime soon, so overlap and duplication will remain anyway. Also, it feels weird to have tech content on meta, and the glossary is getting very long (and possibly more difficult to maintain). Therefore, I'm now reconsidering the decision of mixing tech terms and general movement terms on meta.
Below are the current solutions I'm seeing to move forward; I'd love to get some feedback as to what people think would be the best way to proceed.
- Status quo: We keep the current glossaries as they are, even if they
overlap and duplicate work. We'll manage.
- Wikidata: If Wikidata could be used to host terms and definitions
(in various languages), and wikis could pull this data using templates/Lua, it would be a sane way to reduce duplication, while still allowing local wikis to complement it with their own terms. For example, "administrator" is a generic term across Wikimedia sites (even MediaWiki sites), so it would go into the general glossary repository on Wikidata; but "DYK" could be local to the English Wikipedia. With proper templates, the integration between remote and local terms could be seamless. It seems to me, however, that this would require significant development work.
- Google custom search: Waldir recently used Google Custom Search to
created a search tool to find technical information across many pages and sites where information is currently fragmented: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-March/067450.html . We could set up a similar tool (or a floss alternative) that would include all glossaries. By advertising the tool prominently on existing glossary pages (so that users know it exists), this could allow us to curate more specific glossaries, while keeping them all searchable with one tool.
Right now, I'm inclined to go with the "custom search" solution, because it looks like the easiest and fastest to implement, while reducing maintenance costs and remaining flexible. That said, I'd love to hear feedback and opinions about this before implementing anything.
Thanks,
guillaume
Given each community/wiki develops its own speak, it’s probably better to keep all pages. Additionally it would be valuable for the global Wikimedia community to have a simple glossary on meta to ease learning for newcomers and for translations. So it’s probably good to write down on meta basic terms and link to specialized glossaries and possibly set up a custom search as you suggest.
I created some time ago a template on meta for a glossary and applied it to very basic terms [1], mainly with translation in mind. Another idea is to use the translate extension on [[meta:Glossary]] to uniformize the presentation accross languages and to use the translation memory (although it don’t apply to parts of messages AFAIK). Possibly it can also filled Extension:WikimediaMessages with some other very basic Wikimedia terms like "editor", "FDC", "GAC", "privacy policy" to directly reuse these one in translations, but it would probably demands a lot of maintenance for all languages with declensions.
Related to the Wiktionary, some of the terms have a place on the Wiktionary (analytics, API, backlog, boldness, etc.) but certainly not all. Given this fact and your suggestion of using Wikidata, I had the idea of an application based on Wikidata/Omegawiki to create custom dictionaries, which could hold many specialized lexicons (e.g. wikispeak, internet slang, etc.). I am going to the [[Wiktionary future]] page :)
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Translation_teams/fr/English-French_Wikimedi...
~ Seb35
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi,
The use of jargon, acronyms and other abbreviations throughout the Wikimedia movement is a major source of communication issues, and barriers to comprehension and involvement.
The recent thread on this list about "What is Product?" is an example of this, as are initialisms that have long been known to be a barrier for Wikipedia newcomers.
A way to bridge people and communities with different vocabularies is to write and maintain a glossary that explains jargon in plain English terms. We've been lacking a good and up-to-date glossary for Wikimedia "stuff" (Foundation, chapter, movement, technology, etc.).
Therefore, I've started to clean up and expand the outdated Glossary on meta, but it's a lot of work, and I don't have all the answers myself either. I'll continue to work on it, but I'd love to get some help on this and to make it a collaborative effort.
If you have a few minutes to spare, please consider helping your (current and future) fellow Wikimedians by writing a few definitions if there are terms that you can explain in plain English. Additions of new terms are much welcome as well:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Glossary
Some caveats:
- As part of my work, I'm mostly interested in a glossary from a
technical perspective, so the list currently has a technical bias. I'm hoping that by sending this message to a wider audience, people from the whole movement will contribute to the glossary and balance it out.
- Also, I've started to clean up the glossary, but it still contains
dated terms and definitions from a few years ago (like the FundCom), so boldly edit/remove obsolete content.
Seb35, 24/03/2013 21:19:
I created some time ago a template on meta for a glossary and applied it to very basic terms [1], mainly with translation in mind. Another idea is to use the translate extension on [[meta:Glossary]] to uniformize the presentation accross languages and to use the translation memory (although it don’t apply to parts of messages AFAIK).
That would be more like the idea of a https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Terminology
Nemo
Possibly it can also filled Extension:WikimediaMessages with some other very basic Wikimedia terms like "editor", "FDC", "GAC", "privacy policy" to directly reuse these one in translations, but it would probably demands a lot of maintenance for all languages with declensions.
Related to the Wiktionary, some of the terms have a place on the Wiktionary (analytics, API, backlog, boldness, etc.) but certainly not all. Given this fact and your suggestion of using Wikidata, I had the idea of an application based on Wikidata/Omegawiki to create custom dictionaries, which could hold many specialized lexicons (e.g. wikispeak, internet slang, etc.). I am going to the [[Wiktionary future]] page :)
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Translation_teams/fr/English-French_Wikimedi...
~ Seb35
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi,
The use of jargon, acronyms and other abbreviations throughout the Wikimedia movement is a major source of communication issues, and barriers to comprehension and involvement.
The recent thread on this list about "What is Product?" is an example of this, as are initialisms that have long been known to be a barrier for Wikipedia newcomers.
A way to bridge people and communities with different vocabularies is to write and maintain a glossary that explains jargon in plain English terms. We've been lacking a good and up-to-date glossary for Wikimedia "stuff" (Foundation, chapter, movement, technology, etc.).
Therefore, I've started to clean up and expand the outdated Glossary on meta, but it's a lot of work, and I don't have all the answers myself either. I'll continue to work on it, but I'd love to get some help on this and to make it a collaborative effort.
If you have a few minutes to spare, please consider helping your (current and future) fellow Wikimedians by writing a few definitions if there are terms that you can explain in plain English. Additions of new terms are much welcome as well:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Glossary
Some caveats:
- As part of my work, I'm mostly interested in a glossary from a
technical perspective, so the list currently has a technical bias. I'm hoping that by sending this message to a wider audience, people from the whole movement will contribute to the glossary and balance it out.
- Also, I've started to clean up the glossary, but it still contains
dated terms and definitions from a few years ago (like the FundCom), so boldly edit/remove obsolete content.
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