Hi everyone,
According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic annotation is the process of attaching additional information to various concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in a given text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations for reader's reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to refer to." (more at https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )
On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been created (yet) in that language. Often another language does have an article about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about the subject. Take for example https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has over 250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in Dutch. We have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer all sorts of nice features to our users like: * Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language * Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information in the local language * Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the article from another language (probably plenty of other good uses)
Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not the way to go. Maybe a better option would be to create a new property on Wikidata to store the name of the future article. Something like Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". Would be easiest because the infrastructure is there and you can just build tools on top of it, but I'm afraid this will cause a lot of noise on items. A couple of suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but what is keeping people from adding the suggestion in 100 languages? Or maybe restrict the usage that a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or n) incoming links before people are allowed to add it? We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up everything.
What do you think?
Maarten
The problem, if you don't put something on the wikipage itself, is how then do you determine which [[John A. Smith]] a redlink was intended to refer to, if there is more than one possibility.
But Maarten is right, that at least on en-wiki, the suggestion of adding templates to link to Wikidata content has met with considerable hostility, expressed in two recent RfCs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_202#RfC...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_204#New...
-- James.
On 24/09/2018 18:48, Maarten Dammers wrote:
Hi everyone,
According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic annotation is the process of attaching additional information to various concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in a given text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations for reader's reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to refer to." (more at https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )
On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been created (yet) in that language. Often another language does have an article about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about the subject. Take for example https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has over 250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in Dutch. We have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer all sorts of nice features to our users like:
- Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language
- Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information in
the local language
- Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the article
from another language (probably plenty of other good uses)
Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not the way to go. Maybe a better option would be to create a new property on Wikidata to store the name of the future article. Something like Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". Would be easiest because the infrastructure is there and you can just build tools on top of it, but I'm afraid this will cause a lot of noise on items. A couple of suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but what is keeping people from adding the suggestion in 100 languages? Or maybe restrict the usage that a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or n) incoming links before people are allowed to add it? We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up everything.
What do you think?
Maarten
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
--- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com
Hi James,
On 24-09-18 20:08, James Heald wrote:
The problem, if you don't put something on the wikipage itself, is how then do you determine which [[John A. Smith]] a redlink was intended to refer to, if there is more than one possibility.
That's a classic disambiguation problem. Most Wikipedia's seem to be pretty good at dealing with these. At least for the Dutch Wikipedia I know people working on disambiguation are quite active and I encounter quite a few disambiguated red links. If this would really become an issue, a qualifier could be used to track based on what article (it's linked item) the link was made. So in the case of Friedrich Ris, that would be https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1624113 (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aethriamanta_aethra).
Maarten
But Maarten is right, that at least on en-wiki, the suggestion of adding templates to link to Wikidata content has met with considerable hostility, expressed in two recent RfCs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_202#RfC...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_204#New...
-- James.
On 24/09/2018 18:48, Maarten Dammers wrote:
Hi everyone,
According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic annotation is the process of attaching additional information to various concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in a given text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations for reader's reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to refer to." (more at https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )
On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been created (yet) in that language. Often another language does have an article about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about the subject. Take for example https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has over 250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in Dutch. We have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer all sorts of nice features to our users like:
- Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language
- Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information
in the local language
- Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the
article from another language (probably plenty of other good uses)
Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not the way to go. Maybe a better option would be to create a new property on Wikidata to store the name of the future article. Something like Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". Would be easiest because the infrastructure is there and you can just build tools on top of it, but I'm afraid this will cause a lot of noise on items. A couple of suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but what is keeping people from adding the suggestion in 100 languages? Or maybe restrict the usage that a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or n) incoming links before people are allowed to add it? We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up everything.
What do you think?
Maarten
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
I want to draw your attention to the problem from the other side. On the newly created page, which can be opened by the red link, there is no binding to the Wikidata. This means that after the creation, the page will not automatically be linked to the Wikidata. And if the project has templates that can use information from the Wikidata, they will not fully work until the page will be saved at least once and linked to an item. I already suggested to add the parameter for this: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178249
If something like this will be implemented, then it will be possible to make a template for the red links (with Lua and TemplateStyles) that will be connected to the Wikidata. Although I agree that it is better to have a syntax that will allow to make links without such difficulties.
пн, 24 сент. 2018 г. в 20:50, Maarten Dammers maarten@mdammers.nl:
Hi everyone,
According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic annotation is the process of attaching additional information to various concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in a given text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations for reader's reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to refer to." (more at https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )
On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been created (yet) in that language. Often another language does have an article about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about the subject. Take for example https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has over 250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in Dutch. We have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer all sorts of nice features to our users like:
- Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language
- Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information in
the local language
- Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the article
from another language (probably plenty of other good uses)
Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not the way to go. Maybe a better option would be to create a new property on Wikidata to store the name of the future article. Something like Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". Would be easiest because the infrastructure is there and you can just build tools on top of it, but I'm afraid this will cause a lot of noise on items. A couple of suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but what is keeping people from adding the suggestion in 100 languages? Or maybe restrict the usage that a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or n) incoming links before people are allowed to add it? We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up everything.
What do you think?
Maarten
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
All that red makes the page look bad, and i would like to point out the abuse factor here, all those red links start edit wars, and should be put there if any by people,
The creation of the wikidata page also creats a problem, because it does not establis a lable which should be mandatory and in english, in the save proses.
and this problem * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Labels_and_descriptions#L...
Tuesday, September 25, 2018 2:58 AM -05:00 from Sergey Leschina mail@putnik.ws:
I want to draw your attention to the problem from the other side. On the newly created page, which can be opened by the red link, there is no binding to the Wikidata. This means that after the creation, the page will not automatically be linked to the Wikidata. And if the project has templates that can use information from the Wikidata, they will not fully work until the page will be saved at least once and linked to an item. I already suggested to add the parameter for this: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178249
If something like this will be implemented, then it will be possible to make a template for the red links (with Lua and TemplateStyles) that will be connected to the Wikidata. Although I agree that it is better to have a syntax that will allow to make links without such difficulties. пн, 24 сент. 2018 г. в 20:50, Maarten Dammers < maarten@mdammers.nl >:
Hi everyone,
According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic annotation is the process of attaching additional information to various concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in a given text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations for reader's reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to refer to." (more at https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )
On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been created (yet) in that language. Often another language does have an article about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about the subject. Take for example https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has over 250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in Dutch. We have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer all sorts of nice features to our users like:
- Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language
- Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information in
the local language
- Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the article
from another language (probably plenty of other good uses)
Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not the way to go. Maybe a better option would be to create a new property on Wikidata to store the name of the future article. Something like Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". Would be easiest because the infrastructure is there and you can just build tools on top of it, but I'm afraid this will cause a lot of noise on items. A couple of suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but what is keeping people from adding the suggestion in 100 languages? Or maybe restrict the usage that a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or n) incoming links before people are allowed to add it? We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up everything.
What do you think?
Maarten
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
-- Sergey Leschina _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
On 24 September 2018 at 18:48, Maarten Dammers maarten@mdammers.nl wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
This facility already exists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Interlanguage_link#Link_to_Reasonator...
Hello,
On 27-09-18 01:16, Andy Mabbett wrote:
On 24 September 2018 at 18:48, Maarten Dammers maarten@mdammers.nl wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
This facility already exists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Interlanguage_link#Link_to_Reasonator_and_Wikidata
You seem to have done some selective quoting and selective reading. I addressed this in my original email:
On 24-09-18 19:48, Maarten Dammers wrote:
Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not the way to go.
James also shared some links related to this.
Maarten
The idea of linking red links is very interesting, I believe, especially as we have Wikidata items to many of the missing articles. We discussed the concept of "smart red links" (linking to the ArticlePlaceholder pages, as someone pointed out before) a while ago, documented at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticlePlaceholder/Smart_red_links
I believe it's a very interesting direction to explore, especially for Wikipedias with a smaller amount of articles and therefore naturally a higher amount of red links.
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 at 21:06, Maarten Dammers maarten@mdammers.nl wrote:
Hello,
On 27-09-18 01:16, Andy Mabbett wrote:
On 24 September 2018 at 18:48, Maarten Dammers maarten@mdammers.nl
wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red
link on
Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
This facility already exists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Interlanguage_link#Link_to_Reasonator... You seem to have done some selective quoting and selective reading. I addressed this in my original email:
On 24-09-18 19:48, Maarten Dammers wrote:
Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not the way to go.
James also shared some links related to this.
Maarten
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
New property proposed at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Wikipedia_suggested...
On 28-09-18 11:27, Lucie-Aimée Kaffee wrote:
The idea of linking red links is very interesting, I believe, especially as we have Wikidata items to many of the missing articles. We discussed the concept of "smart red links" (linking to the ArticlePlaceholder pages, as someone pointed out before) a while ago, documented at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticlePlaceholder/Smart_red_links
I believe it's a very interesting direction to explore, especially for Wikipedias with a smaller amount of articles and therefore naturally a higher amount of red links.
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 at 21:06, Maarten Dammers <maarten@mdammers.nl mailto:maarten@mdammers.nl> wrote:
Hello, On 27-09-18 01:16, Andy Mabbett wrote: > On 24 September 2018 at 18:48, Maarten Dammers <maarten@mdammers.nl <mailto:maarten@mdammers.nl>> wrote: > >> Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on >> Wikipedia and the Wikidata item? > This facility already exists: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Interlanguage_link#Link_to_Reasonator_and_Wikidata You seem to have done some selective quoting and selective reading. I addressed this in my original email: On 24-09-18 19:48, Maarten Dammers wrote: > Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's > people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's > not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and > the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. > That's not the way to go. James also shared some links related to this. Maarten _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-- Lucie-Aimée Kaffee Web and Internet Science Group School of Electronics and Computer Science University of Southampton
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata