Hello Gregor,
Thank you for your clear and convincing summary of 3rd party data licensing.
Could you or someone else on- or off-list tell me if Wikimedia is planning some sort of comprehensive technical separation of 3rd party data to ensure attribution, clearance of rights for downstream reuse etc.?
My current project, www.linkedheritage.eu, is looking at this type of question right now so I'm happy to discuss.
Best wishes,
Michael Hopwood Linked Heritage Project Lead EDItEUR United House, North Road London N7 9DP UK
Tel: +44 20 7503 6418 Mob: +44 7811 591036 Skype: michael.hopwood.editeur http://www.linkedheritage.org/ http://editeur.org/
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-----Original Message----- From: wikidata-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikidata-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of wikidata-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: 17 November 2012 12:00 To: wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Wikidata-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 10
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Wikidata license (was "Introduction and some questions on Wikidata") (Gregor Hagedorn) 2. Re: Wikidata demo repo is being spammed. (Vito) 3. weekly summary #32 (Lydia Pintscher) 4. A framework for policies & similar stuffs (Vito) 5. Property specification on-wiki (Jeroen De Dauw) 6. Re: Property specification on-wiki (Daniel Kinzler) 7. Re: Property specification on-wiki (Gregor Hagedorn)
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Message: 1 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:06:00 +0100 From: Gregor Hagedorn g.m.hagedorn@gmail.com To: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata license (was "Introduction and some questions on Wikidata") Message-ID: CADCRvwZeOZqWV7MdUyaw_z9-dwpzEJbsR5tSBY-ubjzGBaCJ1Q@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Just to clarify, my concern is about externally made databases, regardless of whether these are imported directly into Wikidata, or have been incorporated into Wikipedia first and imported into Wikidata from there. For example, the population data in Wikipedia's list of ceremonial English counties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ceremonial_counties_of_England), which also features in the infoboxes of the articles on each county, would I think be covered by database right under U.K law. Like other ONS material, it has been made available under the OGL, which does impose some obligations on re-users (somewhat similar to CC-BY).
This is in interesting case. However, while the database right gives you certain rights, it does not give you a copyright (i.e. the conent may be legally problematic, but it cannot be covered by CC BY-SA). Thus, the use on Wikipedia is either exclusively licensed with an obligation to prevent re-use by third parties (which is not the case, WMF does not do this), or it is illegal, or acceptance of open re-use is an implicit waiver of database rights.
I believe you can not allow it on Wikipedia but then NOT allow further reuse.
However, to clarify:
1. It is much preferable to add such data to Wikidata and include their source in a structured way. Whether OGL or other licenses need to be explicitly supported by Wikidata in the future will have to be a separate discussion, on Wikidata.org.
2. My goal in participating in this discussion is to avoid the impression that re-use of Wikipedia content is not possible at all without looking at each invidivual data element and record.
3. Wikidata plans to support a hierarchy of multiple data for the same statement (multiple values from different sources for a single property in a single item). This makes it possible (although not required) to mix Wikipedia-harvested information with poor sourcing with clean, well sourced data.
4. Not harvesting from Wikipedia implies to verify that almost all information from Wikipedia is in WIkidata, but cleanly sourced, before it si possible to migrate a class of infoboxes to Wikidata. I believe this is an impossible task, making some import of Wikipedia-harvested data necessary. Where better, sourced information exist, these would take precedence.
Gregor
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Message: 2 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:12:45 +0100 From: Vito vituzzu.wiki@gmail.com To: wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata demo repo is being spammed. Message-ID: 50A649DD.2090003@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Il 16/11/2012 07:24, Katie Filbert ha scritto:
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 2:40 AM, Snaevar <snaevar-wiki@gmx.com mailto:snaevar-wiki@gmx.com> wrote:
Hello, I wanted to let you guys know that there is spam being added to items (descriptions and labels) on the demo repo.Thanks for reporting this.
I've deleted the spam.
Cheers, Katie
Unfortunately I already saw spambots doing sul on wikidata, so a spam attacks are at the hand. Please report any spam to stewards in order to let them check&lock everything.
Vito
Hi Michael,
(I cannot speak on behalf of WMF, this is not official)
The plans for Wikidata are to carefully attribute sources of data, which comes much closer to what you need, i.e. 3rd party data are separatable. For the start the CC0 license has been chosen which gives you unlimited re-use rights, but other licenses may be supported later if needed. The discussion was to decide this only when the use cases start to come in.
The real data use is still to come, so far wikidata can really only do the interlanguage linking of wikipedia pages. The rest is being worked on right now.
Best
Gregor
Thanks Gregor,
I appreciate the quick and frank response!
I have noted that even when heritage organisations publish data they may not wish to - or even legally be able to - waive the rights in their data (which is primarily database right in the whole dataset, but could also be copyrights in particular elements) a la CC0.
For commercial sector data, which has absolutely no mandate for this kind of CC0 openness due to public funding for its creation, there simply must be at least attribution; and probably built on top of that (as well as currency data, perhaps) granular licensing terms.
I'm glad this is on wikidata's radar! :)
Cheers,
Michael
-----Original Message----- From: Gregor Hagedorn [mailto:g.m.hagedorn@gmail.com] Sent: 20 November 2012 12:06 To: Michael Hopwood Cc: wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: Wikidata-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 10
Hi Michael,
(I cannot speak on behalf of WMF, this is not official)
The plans for Wikidata are to carefully attribute sources of data, which comes much closer to what you need, i.e. 3rd party data are separatable. For the start the CC0 license has been chosen which gives you unlimited re-use rights, but other licenses may be supported later if needed. The discussion was to decide this only when the use cases start to come in.
The real data use is still to come, so far wikidata can really only do the interlanguage linking of wikipedia pages. The rest is being worked on right now.
Best
Gregor