At 09:31 04/04/2012, Stracke, Christian wrote:
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Dear Denny,
thanks for your feedback:
indeed you have to pay for the MLR standards (as it is the business
model of ISO what I also do not like).
Dear all,
Denny's remark and Christian's responses are important to us, because
they show a structural difference of two complementary thinkings of
which we need to interface the ideas because they make the today's world :
- ISO's approach is of an heavy cinematic, respecting the course of
the nation states innovation (heavy industrial investments) in the
international post WWII world. They do not even think that metadata
specialists may be pennyless and that their users only trust what
they know they can check by themselves.
- the Internet community approach is of an open dynamic involving
lead users' innovation (open source development) in the so called
"information society" where a printed working document is a pain
because you need to scan and OCR it before you can work on/with it.
Ignorance of the technical law is no excuse, but knowledge of the
technical law if not free. This is a "techne" evolution of our world
and a transition problem everyone faces at different levels. For
example, IETF considers ISO as a UN dinosaur, and I facilitate a
non-WG IETF list for lead users contributions, i.e. wiki documents
oriented people who considers the IETF as a dynosaur.
This does not affect the pertinence of the work being achieved. ISO
and open Standardisation and Documentation Organizations (oSDOs). The
JTC1 work is of the essence. In particular in what concerns analysis
(in networking we all understand the importance, but also the
uncompleteness, of the OSI 7 layers model).
We need access to the ideas and experience (freedom of legitimate
knowledge) contained in the documents quoted by Christian. It is true
that the OSI economic model is totally outdated and that the first
thing Wikidata has to do is to publish them for free (this is already
the case for the ITU documents). I have, on behalf of the IUse
commuity a long standing understanding with the ISO's lawyer that we
need to settle something, but this is not moving fast, this is to say
the least :-)
What can be donne is :
- to use the
metadata-stds.org/19763/index.html working versions
prior to publications when available.
- Christian says that the JTC1/SC3X contributions are ISO 11179 and
ISO 19763. The frameworks are the first documents (i.e. 11179-1 and
19763-1). You look for them as PDF on Google.
You can have ISO 11179-1 version for the vote free on line.
You can have ISO 19763-1 for $ 8 at
http://www.e-standard.org/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&in…
My personal plans, but I am alone on this for the time being and
there miss some mind mapping tools, is to work on the ISO documents
and extract what is necessary to understand and interface their
systems and to make it a for information RFC. Until I can sue ISO for
betraying the users' trust in order to help them documenting to
governments their need for alternative financing.
Best
jfc
PS. I believe that the minimum we need is to have a common vocabulary
concerning concepts, and from there a good rough understanding of
their model and communications protocols. My priority (but I have
many things to do).
But there are several unique advantages of the ISO
standards:
First, transparent and open process of their development (according
the openly available ISO directives).
Second, voting by national delegations from the United Nations' and
ISO member states.
Third, balanced voting (one country, one vote!).
Fourth, ISO standards can be used without any costs, without any
licensing and without any patent problems (if not clearly stated
differently on the first page).
That means, only one person has to contribute the standard and then
you can use it for any project including your Wikimedia projects.
Therefore I would not call the fact that the standard is sold by ISO
as a big obstacle for its use.
Hope that it helps and clarifies.
Best
Christian
With best regards
Christian Stracke
---
Christian M. Stracke
Convener ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36/WG5
Chair CEN TC 353
HR, E-Learning, Quality and Competence Development
University of Duisburg-Essen, Campus Essen
Information Systems for Production and Operations Management
Universitaetsstr. 9 (FB WIWI: ICB)
D-45141 Essen (Germany)
Tel.: +49-(0)201-183-4410
Fax: +49-(0)201-183-4067
E-mail: <Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.htm>Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de
WWW: <http://www.wip.uni-due.de/>http://www.wip.uni-due.de
eCOTOOL harmonizes competence models for European policies
<http://www.ecompetence.eu/>http://www.ecompetence.eu
WACOM for Water Competences in Europe
<http://www.wacom-project.eu/>http://www.wacom-project.eu
Q.E.D. supports quality and standards in e-learning
<http://www.qed-info.de/>http://www.qed-info.de
CEN/TC 353 "ICT for Learning, Education and Training"
<http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353>http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353
ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36 "IT for Learning, Education and Training"
<http://www.sc36.org/>http://www.sc36.org
Von: Denny VrandeÄiÄ [mailto:denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. April 2012 11:30
An: Discussion list for the Wikidata project.
Cc: Stracke, Christian
Betreff: Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata: New ISO Metadata standard MLR
published last year
Dear Christian,
thanks for your pointers!
I clicked on the first part of the three parts you have listed. It
tells me to pay 162 Swiss Franks to even read the standard.
Wikimedia is devoted to free knowledge, which includes the software
and standards we use. Therefore I am afraid that such a standard is
not very high on our priorities for things to be considered for our mission.
Cheers,
Denny
2012/4/3 Stracke, Christian
<<mailto:Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de>Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de>
Dear all,
I would like to draw your attention to the latest international
metadata standard from ISO (International Standardization Committee
established by the United Nations in 1949):
ISO/IEC 19788, called MLR (= Metadata for Learning Resource, named
for historical reasons but applicable for any resources).
MLR was developed and approved by the national delegations from all
five continents after eight years of development and discussion in
ISO committee SC36
(<http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/open/jtc1sc36>http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/open/jtc1sc36).
It is completely compliant with Dublin Core (also adopted as ISO standard).
And only ISO (<http://www.iso.org>www.iso.org) can approve and
publish official and de-jure standards at the international level.
The first three parts are published:
<http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=50772>http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=50772
http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnu…
<http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=52774>http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=52774
MLR is already adopted in many countries as national standards and
used in implementations (mainly in Asia).
Currently the voting has been started in the European
Standardization Committee CEN TC 353
(<http://www.cen.eu/CEN/sectors/sectors/isss/Pages/CEN%20TC%20353.aspx>http://www.cen.eu/CEN/sectors/sectors/isss/Pages/CEN
TC 353.aspx) that MLR is adopted as European Norm (EN) by CEN, too.
Then MLR as EN will automatically withdraw all national metadata
standards in Europe that are in conflict with MLR for harmonization
across Europe.
I assume that after approval as European Norm the implementation of
MLR will increase immediately in Europe, too.
Therefore I recommend to consider the usage and implementation of
MLR as metadata standard for the metadata description of the data.
I hope that it helps for setting up Wikidata.
Thank you very much for your consideration and feedback!
Best wishes
Christian
With best regards
Christian Stracke
---
Christian M. Stracke
Convener ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36/WG5
Chair CEN TC 353
HR, E-Learning, Quality and Competence Development
University of Duisburg-Essen, Campus Essen
Information Systems for Production and Operations Management
Universitaetsstr. 9 (FB WIWI: ICB)
D-45141 Essen (Germany)
Tel.: <tel:%2B49-%280%29201-183-4410>+49-(0)201-183-4410
Fax: <tel:%2B49-%280%29201-183-4067>+49-(0)201-183-4067
E-mail:
<http://Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de>Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de
WWW: <http://www.wip.uni-due.de/>http://www.wip.uni-due.de
eCOTOOL harmonizes competence models for European policies
<http://www.ecompetence.eu/>http://www.ecompetence.eu
WACOM for Water Competences in Europe
<http://www.wacom-project.eu/>http://www.wacom-project.eu
Q.E.D. supports quality and standards in e-learning
<http://www.qed-info.de/>http://www.qed-info.de
CEN/TC 353 "ICT for Learning, Education and Training"
<http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353>http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353
ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36 "IT for Learning, Education and Training"
<http://www.sc36.org/>http://www.sc36.org
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