Dear all, I'm sorry bit "jfc" is mixing up different standards and committees (what is easy): MLR was developed and approved by SC36 and published as ISO/IEC 19788 series. MLR is a general metadata framework that is rule-based, Dublin Core (DC) compliant and extensible by application profiles. We have applied to ISO that this standard series will become freely available as we believe that this generic framework can help to harmonize metadata worldwide. By using unique identifiers and allowing RDF triples MLR is compatible with all current web standards and technologies (what is not the case for most old-fashioned metadata standards). ISO/IEC 11179 and ISO/IEC 19763 are developed by SC32 and ongoing work: Only small parts of these multi-part standards are finished, most of them are in early stage. And they are not dealing with metadata but with other topics: ISO/IEC 11179 is for setting up a (commercial!) registry ISO/IEC 19763 is for registration processes and services (that can be used by the commercial registry) Thank you very much for noting these differences! Best wishes Christian With best regards Christian Stracke --- Christian M. Stracke Convener ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36/WG5 Chair CEN TC 353 HR, E-Learning, Quality and Competence Development University of Duisburg-Essen, Campus Essen Information Systems for Production and Operations Management Universitaetsstr. 9 (FB WIWI: ICB) D-45141 Essen (Germany) Tel.: +49-(0)201-183-4410 Fax: +49-(0)201-183-4067 E-mail: Christian.Stracke(a)icb.uni-due.de WWW: http://www.wip.uni-due.de<http://www.wip.uni-due.de/> eCOTOOL harmonizes competence models for European policies http://www.ecompetence.eu<http://www.ecompetence.eu/> WACOM for Water Competences in Europe http://www.wacom-project.eu<http://www.wacom-project.eu/> Q.E.D. supports quality and standards in e-learning http://www.qed-info.de<http://www.qed-info.de/> CEN/TC 353 "ICT for Learning, Education and Training" http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353 ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36 "IT for Learning, Education and Training" http://www.sc36.org<http://www.sc36.org/> Von: JFC Morfin [mailto:jefsey@jefsey.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 4. April 2012 16:34 An: Discussion list for the Wikidata project.; Denny Vrandečić; Discussion list for the Wikidata project. Cc: Stracke, Christian Betreff: Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata: New ISO Metadata standard MLR published last year At 09:31 04/04/2012, Stracke, Christian wrote: Content-Language: de-DE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6A1084EB7982C249A73604731699E2B611309D2EWIWINFEXDAG01wi_" Dear Denny, thanks for your feedback: indeed you have to pay for the MLR standards (as it is the business model of ISO what I also do not like). Dear all, Denny's remark and Christian's responses are important to us, because they show a structural difference of two complementary thinkings of which we need to interface the ideas because they make the today's world : - ISO's approach is of an heavy cinematic, respecting the course of the nation states innovation (heavy industrial investments) in the international post WWII world. They do not even think that metadata specialists may be pennyless and that their users only trust what they know they can check by themselves. - the Internet community approach is of an open dynamic involving lead users' innovation (open source development) in the so called "information society" where a printed working document is a pain because you need to scan and OCR it before you can work on/with it. Ignorance of the technical law is no excuse, but knowledge of the technical law if not free. This is a "techne" evolution of our world and a transition problem everyone faces at different levels. For example, IETF considers ISO as a UN dinosaur, and I facilitate a non-WG IETF list for lead users contributions, i.e. wiki documents oriented people who considers the IETF as a dynosaur. This does not affect the pertinence of the work being achieved. ISO and open Standardisation and Documentation Organizations (oSDOs). The JTC1 work is of the essence. In particular in what concerns analysis (in networking we all understand the importance, but also the uncompleteness, of the OSI 7 layers model). We need access to the ideas and experience (freedom of legitimate knowledge) contained in the documents quoted by Christian. It is true that the OSI economic model is totally outdated and that the first thing Wikidata has to do is to publish them for free (this is already the case for the ITU documents). I have, on behalf of the IUse commuity a long standing understanding with the ISO's lawyer that we need to settle something, but this is not moving fast, this is to say the least :-) What can be donne is : - to use the metadata-stds.org/19763/index.html working versions prior to publications when available. - Christian says that the JTC1/SC3X contributions are ISO 11179 and ISO 19763. The frameworks are the first documents (i.e. 11179-1 and 19763-1). You look for them as PDF on Google. You can have ISO 11179-1 version for the vote free on line. You can have ISO 19763-1 for $ 8 at http://www.e-standard.org/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&in… My personal plans, but I am alone on this for the time being and there miss some mind mapping tools, is to work on the ISO documents and extract what is necessary to understand and interface their systems and to make it a for information RFC. Until I can sue ISO for betraying the users' trust in order to help them documenting to governments their need for alternative financing. Best jfc PS. I believe that the minimum we need is to have a common vocabulary concerning concepts, and from there a good rough understanding of their model and communications protocols. My priority (but I have many things to do). But there are several unique advantages of the ISO standards: First, transparent and open process of their development (according the openly available ISO directives). Second, voting by national delegations from the United Nations' and ISO member states. Third, balanced voting (one country, one vote!). Fourth, ISO standards can be used without any costs, without any licensing and without any patent problems (if not clearly stated differently on the first page). That means, only one person has to contribute the standard and then you can use it for any project including your Wikimedia projects. Therefore I would not call the fact that the standard is sold by ISO as a big obstacle for its use. Hope that it helps and clarifies. Best Christian With best regards Christian Stracke --- Christian M. Stracke Convener ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36/WG5 Chair CEN TC 353 HR, E-Learning, Quality and Competence Development University of Duisburg-Essen, Campus Essen Information Systems for Production and Operations Management Universitaetsstr. 9 (FB WIWI: ICB) D-45141 Essen (Germany) Tel.: +49-(0)201-183-4410 Fax: +49-(0)201-183-4067 E-mail: Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de<Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.htm> WWW: http://www.wip.uni-due.de<http://www.wip.uni-due.de/> eCOTOOL harmonizes competence models for European policies http://www.ecompetence.eu<http://www.ecompetence.eu/> WACOM for Water Competences in Europe http://www.wacom-project.eu<http://www.wacom-project.eu/> Q.E.D. supports quality and standards in e-learning http://www.qed-info.de<http://www.qed-info.de/> CEN/TC 353 "ICT for Learning, Education and Training" http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353 ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36 "IT for Learning, Education and Training" http://www.sc36.org<http://www.sc36.org/> Von: Denny Vrandečić [ mailto:denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de] Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. April 2012 11:30 An: Discussion list for the Wikidata project. Cc: Stracke, Christian Betreff: Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata: New ISO Metadata standard MLR published last year Dear Christian, thanks for your pointers! I clicked on the first part of the three parts you have listed. It tells me to pay 162 Swiss Franks to even read the standard. Wikimedia is devoted to free knowledge, which includes the software and standards we use. Therefore I am afraid that such a standard is not very high on our priorities for things to be considered for our mission. Cheers, Denny 2012/4/3 Stracke, Christian < Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de<mailto:Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de>> Dear all, I would like to draw your attention to the latest international metadata standard from ISO (International Standardization Committee established by the United Nations in 1949): ISO/IEC 19788, called MLR (= Metadata for Learning Resource, named for historical reasons but applicable for any resources). MLR was developed and approved by the national delegations from all five continents after eight years of development and discussion in ISO committee SC36 ( http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/open/jtc1sc36). It is completely compliant with Dublin Core (also adopted as ISO standard). And only ISO (www.iso.org<http://www.iso.org>) can approve and publish official and de-jure standards at the international level. The first three parts are published: http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnu… http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnu… http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnu… MLR is already adopted in many countries as national standards and used in implementations (mainly in Asia). Currently the voting has been started in the European Standardization Committee CEN TC 353 ( http://www.cen.eu/CEN/sectors/sectors/isss/Pages/CEN TC 353.aspx<http://www.cen.eu/CEN/sectors/sectors/isss/Pages/CEN%20TC%20353.aspx>) that MLR is adopted as European Norm (EN) by CEN, too. Then MLR as EN will automatically withdraw all national metadata standards in Europe that are in conflict with MLR for harmonization across Europe. I assume that after approval as European Norm the implementation of MLR will increase immediately in Europe, too. Therefore I recommend to consider the usage and implementation of MLR as metadata standard for the metadata description of the data. I hope that it helps for setting up Wikidata. Thank you very much for your consideration and feedback! Best wishes Christian With best regards Christian Stracke --- Christian M. Stracke Convener ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36/WG5 Chair CEN TC 353 HR, E-Learning, Quality and Competence Development University of Duisburg-Essen, Campus Essen Information Systems for Production and Operations Management Universitaetsstr. 9 (FB WIWI: ICB) D-45141 Essen (Germany) Tel.: +49-(0)201-183-4410<tel:%2B49-%280%29201-183-4410> Fax: +49-(0)201-183-4067<tel:%2B49-%280%29201-183-4067> E-mail: Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de<http://Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de> WWW: http://www.wip.uni-due.de<http://www.wip.uni-due.de/> eCOTOOL harmonizes competence models for European policies http://www.ecompetence.eu<http://www.ecompetence.eu/> WACOM for Water Competences in Europe http://www.wacom-project.eu<http://www.wacom-project.eu/> Q.E.D. supports quality and standards in e-learning http://www.qed-info.de<http://www.qed-info.de/> CEN/TC 353 "ICT for Learning, Education and Training" http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353 ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36 "IT for Learning, Education and Training" http://www.sc36.org<http://www.sc36.org/> _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l -- Project director Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Eisenacher Straße 2 | 10777 Berlin Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l