Daniel,
I'm worried you're trying to reinvent #REDIRECT I know it looks suboptimal the way it is, but it has proved working quite efficiently So what is clearly missing is a #REDIRECT for properties It would avoid breaking things It would avoid making labels unique (which could be a burden, if not really needed) It would allow the wikipedia to be able to detect that they are pointing to a REDIRECT and take their time to point to the last one
(because we know that some redirect are temporary and are deleted at some point : do you want to recreate this behaviour in the labels ?)
Regards,
Mohamed
On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Daniel Kinzler <daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de
wrote:
Before I reply to what you wrote Gerard, let me summarize the question we actually need to answer to go forward:
- currently, property values can be accessed from wikitext using the
property's (unique) label. Do we want to keep this? (the alternative is access via P-ids only)
if yes, should it be possible to change a property's label at all?
if yes, should references to the old label break, or should they
continue to work?
- if they should continue to work, should this be achieved by making the
old label an alias?
- if no, how should it be achieved, exactly?
Am 09.07.2015 um 11:54 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi, The parser would understand it because it stored information. The
property is
still the same property, the label it uses is now seen as a local
overrride.
That would be a completely new system, and quite complicated. It would also introduce a host of new issues (such local overrides may conflict with new names, or other local overrides, for instance. Language fallback makes this even more fun. Not to mention that we currently don't have a good place to store this kind of information).
The current proposal is to store those overrides in wikidata, as aliases.
Daniel, there are many ways to solve this. The problem you face is based
on a
misconception. Language are not meant for rigidity.
Indeed. But names can be chosen to be unique. We do that all the time when naming pages. And when naming properties. Property names (labels) were always meant to be unique, this is nothing new. (For a while, there was a bug that allowed duplicate labels under *some* circumstances, sorry for that).
Expectting that you can has already been shown to be problematic. Consequently persisting on labels
to be
always unique is a problem of your own choosing. A problem that will not
go away
and is easiest solved now.
If we drop the requirement that properties should be accessible from wikitext via their name, then yes, that would be easy. If people can live with using P-Ids directly, that's fine with me.
It is abundantly clear that you WILL use the requirement of Wikidata as
an
excuse when a language has no alternative.
Excuse for what? From a programming perspective, making people use IDs is by far the simplest solution. It's easy enough for remove support for label based access to properties, if that support is not needed.
Allowing access from wikitext using non-unique names, THAT is not something I would want to support. I can't imagine how that would work at all.
-- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
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