This can also be described (and fixed) as a light-weight version problem. The clients templates and modules (probably also articles later on) are using an old surface form of the property label that existed at some previous time (the time when was last saved). When the client then tries to fetch the property value through use of the label it fails because the property label has a new version.
The proper solution would then be to allow lookup of property labels with a time constraint. Use of the time constraint would be hidden from the user, it would be added by the software. If a property label is used in a template/module, and the label has been changed at Wikidata between to revisions, then a warning can be given in the template/module's history. The new template/module will always use the last timestamp from the revision, it would be up to the user to fix those cases. If a template/module is fixed in the client then it will work even if the label is changed on the repo.
Only real cost would be an additional column for timestamps in the database table. A variation would be to make the lookup indirect through the revision table. Not sure if that would add anything useful.
On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Thomas Douillard thomas.douillard@gmail.com wrote:
Substitution is a standard mechanism in MediaWiki and would achive what Gerard needs ... for example: "{{subst:property_prime|date of birth}}" could be expanded and substituted to "{{#property:Pxxx}} <--date of birth-->" and everything would be stored in the Wikitext. What's wrong with this kind of solution exactly ? you did not elaborate on that.
Before I reply to what you wrote Gerard, let me summarize the question we actually need to answer to go forward:
- currently, property values can be accessed from wikitext using the
property's (unique) label. Do we want to keep this? (the alternative is access via P-ids only)
if yes, should it be possible to change a property's label at all?
if yes, should references to the old label break, or should they continue
to work?
- if they should continue to work, should this be achieved by making the old
label an alias?
- if no, how should it be achieved, exactly?
Am 09.07.2015 um 11:54 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi, The parser would understand it because it stored information. The property is still the same property, the label it uses is now seen as a local overrride.
That would be a completely new system, and quite complicated. It would also introduce a host of new issues (such local overrides may conflict with new names, or other local overrides, for instance. Language fallback makes this even more fun. Not to mention that we currently don't have a good place to store this kind of information).
The current proposal is to store those overrides in wikidata, as aliases.
Daniel, there are many ways to solve this. The problem you face is based on a misconception. Language are not meant for rigidity.
Indeed. But names can be chosen to be unique. We do that all the time when naming pages. And when naming properties. Property names (labels) were always meant to be unique, this is nothing new. (For a while, there was a bug that allowed duplicate labels under *some* circumstances, sorry for that).
Expectting that you can has already been shown to be problematic. Consequently persisting on labels to be always unique is a problem of your own choosing. A problem that will not go away and is easiest solved now.
If we drop the requirement that properties should be accessible from wikitext via their name, then yes, that would be easy. If people can live with using P-Ids directly, that's fine with me.
It is abundantly clear that you WILL use the requirement of Wikidata as an excuse when a language has no alternative.
Excuse for what? From a programming perspective, making people use IDs is by far the simplest solution. It's easy enough for remove support for label based access to properties, if that support is not needed.
Allowing access from wikitext using non-unique names, THAT is not something I would want to support. I can't imagine how that would work at all.
-- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
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