>
> John McClure wrote:
> "Nadja conflated our asking about ISO Topic Maps as a base design standard with incorporating ALL ISO STANDARDS EVER PUBLISHED into the wikidata database"
>
>
> OK what I have sofar understood is that the ISO has not (yet) published much semantically structured content, in particular John how do you know that
> their publications are topic maps? Because there exists a ISO Topic Map metamodel? http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikitopics
> (here another link: http://www.topicmaps.org/standards/)
> I guess there could also be a ISO RDF metamodel....although this would probably rather be a ISO W3C RDF metamodel :O
> that is RDF could be an ISO standard. That is I currently dont see anything which speaks against this or is is it already?
>
> Moreover I am not in favor of topic maps, as explained earlier and as I had understood Wikidata wanted to use RDF and JSON but may
> wikidata people have changed their mind in the meantime and in the end one can probably work with these topic maps somewhat similar as one can work with RDF that is I think it may just be quite a bit more messy moreover my impression is that there is more RDF linked data in the cloud
> (see e.g. http://linkeddata.org/) than topic maps (http://www.topicmaps.org/) but I may be wrong.
>
> moreover I didn't say to use ALL ISO STANDARDS EVER PUBLISHED but suggested to use these eventually as a guideline:
>
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.wikidata/576
>
> this doesnt exclude that one could use in the end all ISO standards ever published, but one could do so incrementally.
>
> so regarding Denny Vrandecics remark:
>
> "Right now I am slightly confused about what your question is. Can you
> rephrase it and ask again? (The reference to "previous email" and
> links to the archive leave me merely more confused)."
>
> I restate the questions of my posting: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.wikidata/576
> with a slightly different wording
>
> Is it planned by the Wikidata team that someone phones these people in Geneva and asks wether wikidata could at least base its ontology (here I mean in particular the overall classification scheme, like a hammer is a tool a.s.o) on
> the ISO Standard
> (eventually by purchasing this right)
> phone number: http://www.iso.org/iso/copyright.htm
> (in that way one would eventually not use their explicit texts and formats but could use at least their
> structural outline) ?
>
> side remark: In particular I still don't see that Wikidata may not run into legal issues with the ISO.
>
> or simply: If the ISO has an IP protection on the classification "a hammer is a tool"
>
> and if wikidata uses the same classification (because it is more or less the only one which makes sense)
>
> then wikidata may be doomed, bailiffs will come and carry your nice new chairs out of your office in schoeneberg
> and so on....
> (correction: the bailiffs would bring someone who carries...)
> next questions:
>
> Is there some rich sponsor who could buy their RDF classification (or topic map classification..?) and
> make it openly accessible? Whats the ISO opinion on that did someone check?
>
>
> Mr. Denny Vrandecic If you still don't understand these questions then please tell me exactly what you do not understand like
> which sentence, which word etc.
>
> nad
>
P.S.
I think this has been suggested already but I am not sure - I think that one should eventually think of allowing parallel classifications schemes at wikidata. So one could have an ISO classification
AND a user made classification like similar to the one at megajoule.org. Frankly speaking I fear that classifications like the one at megajoule.org
(at least if I look at the 100 sofar inserted items, (see under technology)) may not be so overly appropriate for industrial applications.
In particular their data model may be a problem.
Hello everyone,
I just saw the wikidata talk from wikimania 2012 and I have to say wikidata
is shaping up nicely. One think I noticed and like in particular is your
idea how to handle 'facts' so that only adding or removing is allowed, but
not editing. In my opinion thats a tremendously useful concept.
It aligns with others ideas mentioned in this talk (
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Value-Values)
Looking forward to the finished phase 1
regards andreas S.
John McClure wrote:
"I don't think you're hearing the question. A reply y'all gave on the issue was that any standard used by
Wikidata needed to be 100% open-source -- no money required as in free. Even though what is being charged by
ISO to support its business model is a PITTANCE in my humble opinion... So, the consequent question I asked
then was, if you're not going to use any (ISO or national) standard then how can you assure the WP community
that Wikidata is not violating someone's copyright(s)?"
Hello Lydia,
Unfortunately I have to agree with John that you really do not seem to hear the question because that is also
what I read as your reply. Or was there another reply which I missed somewhere in this hard-to-browse-and-search newsgroup?
Thus please explain a bit more what you mean exactly by "Unless something changed on the freedom status of the documents needed nothing changed since we discussed this last."
I do not agree with John that the ISOs business model is a pittance though.
That is as I linked to in this thread:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.wikidata/618
the ISO sells their items seperately and alone e.g. the basic description of Iso inch screw threads:
http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnu…
costs 80 CHF
so this could add up rather quickly to quite an amount of money.
I thus asked (here:http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.wikidata/576) wether one shouldnt ask for packages or at least for the use of the ISO classification scheme. I dont know how much copyright there is on classification schemes in general though. (I could imagine that this is a juridicial problem since big parts of a classification scheme
are often trivial and unavoidable, like a hammer is a tool and it would make no sense to give up this
classification just because there was eventually some crazy copyright protection...however may be
lawyers do now think that a hammer could also equally well be classified as wardrobe item (given what one sees
sometimes in jurisdiction I wouldnt wonder anymore))
Regarding the comment by Denny Vandrecic
"Because we ARE using standards like RDF or OWL (or HTML or URIs) which
are W3C and IETF standards, and which in turn have a well documented
policy regarding patents and copyrights, see e.g.
<http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/> for W3C
standards.
I hope that answers that question."
By looking at this page I can't really see why this is an answer to the questions, could you please
explain this a bit more?
thanks nad
----- Original Nachricht ----
Von: dr.cueppers.gmbh(a)arcor.de
An: wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Datum: 03.09.2012 11:02
Betreff: Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata, ISO and chembox
>
>
>
> ----- Original Nachricht ----
> Von: Nadja Kutz <nadja(a)daytar.de>
> An: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project."
> <wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Datum: 31.08.2012 11:37
> Betreff: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata, ISO and chembox
>
> > Hello
> >
> > Is there any news on the thoughts about including ISO standards into
> > wikidata?
> >
> > in particular it would be nice to here someone from wikidata comment on
> > this:
> > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.wikidata/576
> > ?
> >
> > this may also influence things like the chembox etc.:
> >
> > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.wikidata/784
> >
> > when will there be wikidata access for the chembox ?
>
> I must complement my protrudingly quoted text:
>
> obviously it is really planned to make available complete info-boxes in
> Wikidata (I did not know this with writing my text). However, this is - like
> everything what will be stored in Wikidata only an offer: No WP must use
> this and such an info-box is offered ' in an empty state', i. e. with all
> parameter-names in the left fissure but without any parameter value.
>
> For instance, the info-box ' chemical element ' s required in every WP about
> 100 times i (so much as there are articles to chemical elements, much more
> elements don't exist). Whether any WP uses this Wikidata-info box or not is
> complete regardless of the question, whether this WP uses the values of
> this parameters stored in wikidata or don't use them. The values are stored
> in Wikidata on an other place, so that it is completely regardless of this
> 'empty info box-structure', what just means, that these values are available
> also, if the info box is not taken over from Wikidata and has an other
> structure.
>
> Dr.cueppers
-------------------------
Additional:
For every information Wikidata offers not only one storage space: There can be stored several info-boxes side by side from which can any user pick out the suitably appearing one. And if to an value would be found more than one reference: Every such value can be stored in Wikidata side by side (each with the suitable reference).
With this method (parallel stored values) are also prevented undesirable entries, if it woud be provided, that stored data cannot be overwritten or deleted by users. So will exist - possibly wrong and right - data side by side and everybody selects itself what seems to him right. For wrongly held data he can announce on the accompanying talk-pagee. Then it will not last long until the wrong data are extinguished by a Wikidata-Admin.
I hope that this way of thinking is identical to that of the Wikidata architects.
dr.cueppers
> >
> >
> > greetings nad
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikidata-l mailing list
> > Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >
>
> Dr. Cüppers GmbH
> Hübnerstraße 2
> 33104 Paderborn
> 05254 935700
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikidata-l mailing list
> Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>
Dr. Cüppers GmbH
Hübnerstraße 2
33104 Paderborn
05254 935700
----- Original Nachricht ----
Von: Nadja Kutz <nadja(a)daytar.de>
An: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." <wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Datum: 31.08.2012 11:37
Betreff: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata, ISO and chembox
> Hello
>
> Is there any news on the thoughts about including ISO standards into
> wikidata?
>
> in particular it would be nice to here someone from wikidata comment on
> this:
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.wikidata/576
> ?
>
> this may also influence things like the chembox etc.:
>
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.wikidata/784
>
> when will there be wikidata access for the chembox ?
I must complement my protrudingly quoted text:
obviously it is really planned to make available complete info-boxes in Wikidata (I did not know this with writing my text). However, this is - like everything what will be stored in Wikidata only an offer: No WP must use this and such an info-box is offered ' in an empty state', i. e. with all parameter-names in the left fissure but without any parameter value.
For instance, the info-box ' chemical element ' s required in every WP about 100 times i (so much as there are articles to chemical elements, much more elements don't exist). Whether any WP uses this Wikidata-info box or not is complete regardless of the question, whether this WP uses the values of this parameters stored in wikidata or don't use them. The values are stored in Wikidata on an other place, so that it is completely regardless of this 'empty info box-structure', what just means, that these values are available also, if the info box is not taken over from Wikidata and has an other structure.
Dr.cueppers
>
>
> greetings nad
> _______________________________________________
> Wikidata-l mailing list
> Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>
Dr. Cüppers GmbH
Hübnerstraße 2
33104 Paderborn
05254 935700
Heya folks :)
Here's your summary on what's been happening in Wikidata land over the
last 7 days.
Fancy a wiki version of this? Check
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Status_updates/2012_08_31
= Development =
* Worked on version 2 of generic site handling in MediaWiki
incorporating feedback from wikitech and mediawiki.org, as well as
updating the WIkibase code to match
* Rewrote SQLStore to accommodate phase 2 and phase 3 of Wikidata
* Added maintenance script for rebuilding the store data
* Implemented action column in user interface. All buttons for
user-interaction are now aligned on the right side (for
ltr-languages).
* The language-code is now shown in a separate column in the site-links table
* Started implementing sorting for site-link table columns
* Lots of cleanup in JavaScript code
* Edit conflict detection in a simple form is in place
* Some minor changes to the API to support conflict detection, mostly
“lastrevid” and “baserevid”
* The configurable URL argument “usekeys” was removed. (Please check
if your bots are still working.)
* The special page “ItemByLabel” is about to be revitalized as a full
“ItemDisambiguation” page
See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Development/Current_sprint
for what we’re working on next.
You can follow our commits here:
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/(status:open+project:mediawiki/extension…
and view the subset awaiting review here:
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/status:open+project:mediawiki/extensions…
= Discussions/Press =
* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Preventing_unwanted_edits
= Events =
see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Events
* Campus Party (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ5mWN8BooE)
* FrOSCon
* right now: WikiCon
* upcoming: State of the Map
* upcoming: office hours on IRC
= Other Noteworthy Stuff =
* Please vote for our SXSW panel at
http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/vote/3710. Voting ends today.
= Open Tasks for You =
* for possible coding tasks check
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=need-volunteer&keywords…
* check the needs-input box on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata
and see where you can give feedback
Anything to add? Please share! :)
Cheers
Lydia
--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Community Communications for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Obentrautstr. 72
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
I've just updated https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mailing_lists and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Overview#Mediawiki_and_techni…
. Sorry for the spam, but you really should take a moment to skim and
see whether there are lists there you should join. I especially want to
single out:
design
mediawiki-api-announce
mediawiki-i18n -- localisation and internationalisation
labs-l -- for when you have a question or request re Wikimedia Labs
analytics
wikitext-l -- the new Visual Editor & parser
--
Sumana Harihareswara
Engineering Community Manager
Wikimedia Foundation