http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/12/wikipedia_editing_d isputes_the_crowdsourced_encyclopedia_has_become_a_rancorous.single.html
This is the predicated fallout of the recent ArbCom case in relation to civility (although there's a rather longer and more tortuous history to it).
Kerry
thanks for the link (and, score, I got a quote, too! ;)
dj
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 12:15 AM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/12/wikipedia_editing_d...
This is the predicated fallout of the recent ArbCom case in relation to civility (although there’s a rather longer and more tortuous history to it).
Kerry
Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
There's a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody likes to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
Kerry
_____
From: Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org] Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities Cc: Kerry Raymond Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
_______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
While I agree that the article is overly negative (likely because of the individual experience), I think it still points to an important problem. I don't perceive this article as really problematic in terms of image. Maybe naively, I imagine that people will not stop donating because the community is not ideal.
pundit
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote:
There’s a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody likes to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
Kerry
*From:* Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org] *Sent:* Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM *To:* Research into Wikimedia content and communities *Cc:* Kerry Raymond *Subject:* Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
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It's a good piece, but honestly I think only the dedicated tech reader will make it through the entire story. There's a lot of jargon and insider intrigue such that I could imagine most people never making past the typewriter barf of "BLP, AGF, NOR" :)
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak darekj@alk.edu.pl wrote:
While I agree that the article is overly negative (likely because of the individual experience), I think it still points to an important problem. I don't perceive this article as really problematic in terms of image. Maybe naively, I imagine that people will not stop donating because the community is not ideal.
pundit
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote:
There’s a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody likes to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
Kerry
*From:* Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org] *Sent:* Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM *To:* Research into Wikimedia content and communities *Cc:* Kerry Raymond *Subject:* Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
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prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard: http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia The Wikipedian: http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
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I think feminists, especially those who take an interest in STEM, will pass this article around.
Sydney On Dec 12, 2014 5:35 PM, "Andrew Lih" andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
It's a good piece, but honestly I think only the dedicated tech reader will make it through the entire story. There's a lot of jargon and insider intrigue such that I could imagine most people never making past the typewriter barf of "BLP, AGF, NOR" :)
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak darekj@alk.edu.pl wrote:
While I agree that the article is overly negative (likely because of the individual experience), I think it still points to an important problem. I don't perceive this article as really problematic in terms of image. Maybe naively, I imagine that people will not stop donating because the community is not ideal.
pundit
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote:
There’s a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody likes to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
Kerry
*From:* Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org] *Sent:* Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM *To:* Research into Wikimedia content and communities *Cc:* Kerry Raymond *Subject:* Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) < nemowiki@gmail.com> wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
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Community Research Lead
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)
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prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard: http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia The Wikipedian: http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
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I certainly hope you're right Sydney. What a horrible mess.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com wrote:
I think feminists, especially those who take an interest in STEM, will pass this article around.
Sydney On Dec 12, 2014 5:35 PM, "Andrew Lih" andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
It's a good piece, but honestly I think only the dedicated tech reader will make it through the entire story. There's a lot of jargon and insider intrigue such that I could imagine most people never making past the typewriter barf of "BLP, AGF, NOR" :)
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak darekj@alk.edu.pl wrote:
While I agree that the article is overly negative (likely because of the individual experience), I think it still points to an important problem. I don't perceive this article as really problematic in terms of image. Maybe naively, I imagine that people will not stop donating because the community is not ideal.
pundit
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Kerry Raymond <kerry.raymond@gmail.com
wrote:
There’s a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody likes to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
Kerry
*From:* Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org] *Sent:* Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM *To:* Research into Wikimedia content and communities *Cc:* Kerry Raymond *Subject:* Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) < nemowiki@gmail.com> wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
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Community Research Lead
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)
jmorgan@wikimedia.org
Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
--
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard: http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia The Wikipedian: http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
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We have problems, I don't dispute that. But "ugly and bitter as 4chan"? That has to be an exaggeration.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy
On 13 Dec 2014, at 01:03, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
I certainly hope you're right Sydney. What a horrible mess.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com wrote: I think feminists, especially those who take an interest in STEM, will pass this article around.
Sydney
On Dec 12, 2014 5:35 PM, "Andrew Lih" andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote: It's a good piece, but honestly I think only the dedicated tech reader will make it through the entire story. There's a lot of jargon and insider intrigue such that I could imagine most people never making past the typewriter barf of "BLP, AGF, NOR" :)
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak darekj@alk.edu.pl wrote: While I agree that the article is overly negative (likely because of the individual experience), I think it still points to an important problem. I don't perceive this article as really problematic in terms of image. Maybe naively, I imagine that people will not stop donating because the community is not ideal.
pundit
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote: There’s a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody likes to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
Kerry
From: Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org] Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities Cc: Kerry Raymond Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
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Community Research Lead
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF)
jmorgan@wikimedia.org
Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
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prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard: http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia The Wikipedian: http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
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Communities are who they choose to offer plaudits to. The people getting off largely scott-free in this case are people a highly vocal subgroup has put on a pedestal for years. I don't know if the community as a whole is that ugly and bitter, but I can understand where people would get the impression, from looking at the sort of person we celebrate.
On Monday, 15 December 2014, WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
We have problems, I don't dispute that. But "ugly and bitter as 4chan"? That has to be an exaggeration.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy
On 13 Dec 2014, at 01:03, Andrew Lih <andrew.lih@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','andrew.lih@gmail.com');> wrote:
I certainly hope you're right Sydney. What a horrible mess.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sydney Poore <sydney.poore@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sydney.poore@gmail.com');> wrote:
I think feminists, especially those who take an interest in STEM, will pass this article around.
Sydney On Dec 12, 2014 5:35 PM, "Andrew Lih" <andrew.lih@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','andrew.lih@gmail.com');> wrote:
It's a good piece, but honestly I think only the dedicated tech reader will make it through the entire story. There's a lot of jargon and insider intrigue such that I could imagine most people never making past the typewriter barf of "BLP, AGF, NOR" :)
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj@alk.edu.pl javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','darekj@alk.edu.pl');> wrote:
While I agree that the article is overly negative (likely because of the individual experience), I think it still points to an important problem. I don't perceive this article as really problematic in terms of image. Maybe naively, I imagine that people will not stop donating because the community is not ideal.
pundit
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Kerry Raymond < kerry.raymond@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kerry.raymond@gmail.com');> wrote:
There’s a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody likes to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
Kerry
*From:* Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jmorgan@wikimedia.org');] *Sent:* Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM *To:* Research into Wikimedia content and communities *Cc:* Kerry Raymond *Subject:* Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) < nemowiki@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','nemowiki@gmail.com');> wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
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Community Research Lead
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)
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prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard: http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia The Wikipedian: http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
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Perhaps it depends on what part of the encyclopedia? Has anyone attempted to characterize how the editing environment varies with different subject matter? I often run across descriptions that don't comport with either my experience, or that of people I've interviewed, but it's hard to tell precisely why. I've encountered quite different beliefs about what the en.wikipedia community is like, even among people who to me seem to otherwise have a similar background.
Entirely anecdotally, areas of interest seem to be one correlated factor. For example, writing an article on an archaeological site (one thing I've mentored new editors in doing) is by and large trouble-free and friendly, in my experience. But some other areas are not. I haven't attempted to characterize that factor in any detail.
-Mark
WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com writes:
We have problems, I don't dispute that. But "ugly and bitter as 4chan"? That has to be an exaggeration.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy
On 13 Dec 2014, at 01:03, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
I certainly hope you're right Sydney. What a horrible mess.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com wrote: I think feminists, especially those who take an interest in STEM, will pass this article around.
Sydney
On Dec 12, 2014 5:35 PM, "Andrew Lih" andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote: It's a good piece, but honestly I think only the dedicated tech reader will make it through the entire story. There's a lot of jargon and insider intrigue such that I could imagine most people never making past the typewriter barf of "BLP, AGF, NOR" :)
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak darekj@alk.edu.pl wrote: While I agree that the article is overly negative (likely because of the individual experience), I think it still points to an important problem. I don't perceive this article as really problematic in terms of image. Maybe naively, I imagine that people will not stop donating because the community is not ideal.
pundit
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote: There’s a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody likes to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
Kerry
From: Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org] Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities Cc: Kerry Raymond Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
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Community Research Lead
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF)
jmorgan@wikimedia.org
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prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard: http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia The Wikipedian: http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
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I think area of focus is likely to be a big factor. There's a stereotype, for example, of new page patrollers as particularly uncaring and harried: when we surveyed patrollers, and compared the results to the surveys of the overall editing population, we found that the major demographic difference or difference in priorities is simply that new page patrollers patrol new pages. So where people choose to work definitely plays a part. And, anecdotally, there are some areas that just attract combative individuals and so become less-pleasant for those who (quite rightly) don't want to tolerate that - articles around Israel/Palestine, for example, or the Balkans.
At the end of the day, though, it's the people who make the environments unpleasant just as much as it is the environments altering the people.
On 15 December 2014 at 23:28, mjn mjn@anadrome.org wrote:
Perhaps it depends on what part of the encyclopedia? Has anyone attempted to characterize how the editing environment varies with different subject matter? I often run across descriptions that don't comport with either my experience, or that of people I've interviewed, but it's hard to tell precisely why. I've encountered quite different beliefs about what the en.wikipedia community is like, even among people who to me seem to otherwise have a similar background.
Entirely anecdotally, areas of interest seem to be one correlated factor. For example, writing an article on an archaeological site (one thing I've mentored new editors in doing) is by and large trouble-free and friendly, in my experience. But some other areas are not. I haven't attempted to characterize that factor in any detail.
-Mark
WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com writes:
We have problems, I don't dispute that. But "ugly and bitter as 4chan"?
That has to be an exaggeration.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy
On 13 Dec 2014, at 01:03, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
I certainly hope you're right Sydney. What a horrible mess.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com
wrote:
I think feminists, especially those who take an interest in STEM, will
pass this article around.
Sydney
On Dec 12, 2014 5:35 PM, "Andrew Lih" andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote: It's a good piece, but honestly I think only the dedicated tech
reader will make it through the entire story. There's a lot of jargon and insider intrigue such that I could imagine most people never making past the typewriter barf of "BLP, AGF, NOR" :)
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <
darekj@alk.edu.pl> wrote:
While I agree that the article is overly negative (likely because of
the individual experience), I think it still points to an important problem. I don't perceive this article as really problematic in terms of image. Maybe naively, I imagine that people will not stop donating because the community is not ideal.
pundit
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Kerry Raymond <
kerry.raymond@gmail.com> wrote:
> There’s a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody
likes to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
> > > > Kerry > > > > From: Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org] > Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM > To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities > Cc: Kerry Raymond > Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community
behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
> > > > I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed
description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
> > > > - J > > > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <
nemowiki@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre. > > Nemo > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > > > > > -- > > Jonathan T. Morgan > > Community Research Lead > > Wikimedia Foundation > > User:Jmorgan (WMF) > > jmorgan@wikimedia.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
--
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge?
An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard:
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
Motherboard:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
The Wikipedian:
http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
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It has resurfaced here in Australia
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/12/14/comment-will-editing-disputes- mean-end-wikipedia
Nothing to do with me, I should add.
Kerry
_____
From: wiki-research-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wiki-research-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Oliver Keyes Sent: Wednesday, 17 December 2014 12:04 AM To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I think area of focus is likely to be a big factor. There's a stereotype, for example, of new page patrollers as particularly uncaring and harried: when we surveyed patrollers, and compared the results to the surveys of the overall editing population, we found that the major demographic difference or difference in priorities is simply that new page patrollers patrol new pages. So where people choose to work definitely plays a part. And, anecdotally, there are some areas that just attract combative individuals and so become less-pleasant for those who (quite rightly) don't want to tolerate that - articles around Israel/Palestine, for example, or the Balkans.
At the end of the day, though, it's the people who make the environments unpleasant just as much as it is the environments altering the people.
On 15 December 2014 at 23:28, mjn mjn@anadrome.org wrote:
Perhaps it depends on what part of the encyclopedia? Has anyone attempted to characterize how the editing environment varies with different subject matter? I often run across descriptions that don't comport with either my experience, or that of people I've interviewed, but it's hard to tell precisely why. I've encountered quite different beliefs about what the en.wikipedia community is like, even among people who to me seem to otherwise have a similar background.
Entirely anecdotally, areas of interest seem to be one correlated factor. For example, writing an article on an archaeological site (one thing I've mentored new editors in doing) is by and large trouble-free and friendly, in my experience. But some other areas are not. I haven't attempted to characterize that factor in any detail.
-Mark
WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com writes:
We have problems, I don't dispute that. But "ugly and bitter as 4chan"?
That has to be an exaggeration.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy
On 13 Dec 2014, at 01:03, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
I certainly hope you're right Sydney. What a horrible mess.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com
wrote:
I think feminists, especially those who take an interest in STEM, will
pass this article around.
Sydney
On Dec 12, 2014 5:35 PM, "Andrew Lih" andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote: It's a good piece, but honestly I think only the dedicated tech reader
will make it through the entire story. There's a lot of jargon and insider intrigue such that I could imagine most people never making past the typewriter barf of "BLP, AGF, NOR" :)
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak
darekj@alk.edu.pl wrote:
While I agree that the article is overly negative (likely because of
the individual experience), I think it still points to an important problem. I don't perceive this article as really problematic in terms of image. Maybe naively, I imagine that people will not stop donating because the community is not ideal.
pundit
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Kerry Raymond
kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote:
There's a saying that everyone likes to eat sausages but nobody likes
to know how they are made. It is not good to have negative publicity like that during the annual donation campaign (irrespective of the motivations of the journalist and/or the rights/wrongs of the issue being reported, neither of which I intend to debate here). As a donation-funded organisation, public perception matters a lot.
Kerry
From: Jonathan Morgan [mailto:jmorgan@wikimedia.org] Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2014 6:43 AM To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities Cc: Kerry Raymond Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] commentary on Wikipedia's community
behaviour (Aaron gets a quote)
I mostly agree. On one hand, it's always nice to see a detailed
description of how wiki-sausage gets made in a major venue. On the other, this journalist clearly has a personal axe to grind, and used his bully pulpit to grind it in public.
- J
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
1000th addition to the inconsequential rant genre.
Nemo
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Jonathan T. Morgan
Community Research Lead
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF)
jmorgan@wikimedia.org
Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
--
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An
Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard:
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
Motherboard:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
The Wikipedian:
http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
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