Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Since "cis" means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only?
Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.
CM
*"Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women."* ...wha?
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Carol Moore dc carolmooredc@verizon.net wrote:
On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Since "cis" means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only?
Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.
CM
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I'm not cis..and it was a term I only learned about a few years ago... but, here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
It means that someone identifies as the gender they were born with. So, if you're born with female parts and you identify as a woman and it's totally inline with who you are as said woman... you're cis.
I think Lightbreather used it in the correct way. I'm not sure why it's an insult. It's more like a scientific term, it seems, then a cultural movement.
But, I've learned by now I'm rather an epic fail at trying to use all of these phrases properly. I blame being from Indiana. ;-)
Sarah
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Katherine Casey < fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
*"Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women."* ...wha?
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Carol Moore dc carolmooredc@verizon.net wrote:
On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Since "cis" means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only?
Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.
CM
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Whatever else "cis" is, it's not a scientific term. It's a buzzword that sounds scientific because it derives from the Latin, but in fact it's a coined term that is not used in science.
Risker/Anne
On 16 January 2015 at 16:33, Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not cis..and it was a term I only learned about a few years ago... but, here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
It means that someone identifies as the gender they were born with. So, if you're born with female parts and you identify as a woman and it's totally inline with who you are as said woman... you're cis.
I think Lightbreather used it in the correct way. I'm not sure why it's an insult. It's more like a scientific term, it seems, then a cultural movement.
But, I've learned by now I'm rather an epic fail at trying to use all of these phrases properly. I blame being from Indiana. ;-)
Sarah
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Katherine Casey < fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
*"Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women."* ...wha?
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Carol Moore dc <carolmooredc@verizon.net
wrote:
On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Since "cis" means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only?
Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.
CM
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
--
Sarah Stierch
Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization.
www.sarahstierch.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
What will be discussed in this Kaffeeklatsch area? On Jan 16, 2015 4:56 PM, "Risker" risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever else "cis" is, it's not a scientific term. It's a buzzword that sounds scientific because it derives from the Latin, but in fact it's a coined term that is not used in science.
Risker/Anne
On 16 January 2015 at 16:33, Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not cis..and it was a term I only learned about a few years ago... but, here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
It means that someone identifies as the gender they were born with. So, if you're born with female parts and you identify as a woman and it's totally inline with who you are as said woman... you're cis.
I think Lightbreather used it in the correct way. I'm not sure why it's an insult. It's more like a scientific term, it seems, then a cultural movement.
But, I've learned by now I'm rather an epic fail at trying to use all of these phrases properly. I blame being from Indiana. ;-)
Sarah
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Katherine Casey < fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
*"Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women."* ...wha?
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Carol Moore dc < carolmooredc@verizon.net> wrote:
On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Since "cis" means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only?
Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.
CM
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
--
Sarah Stierch
Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization.
www.sarahstierch.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Whatever we want to that doesn't break WP policy or the klatsch's rules. I envision it along the lines of the WikiProject Women proposal https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#Project_idea at the IdeaLab.
Lightbreather
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:06 PM, JJ Marr jjmarr@gmail.com wrote:
What will be discussed in this Kaffeeklatsch area? On Jan 16, 2015 4:56 PM, "Risker" risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever else "cis" is, it's not a scientific term. It's a buzzword that sounds scientific because it derives from the Latin, but in fact it's a coined term that is not used in science.
Risker/Anne
On 16 January 2015 at 16:33, Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not cis..and it was a term I only learned about a few years ago... but, here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
It means that someone identifies as the gender they were born with. So, if you're born with female parts and you identify as a woman and it's totally inline with who you are as said woman... you're cis.
I think Lightbreather used it in the correct way. I'm not sure why it's an insult. It's more like a scientific term, it seems, then a cultural movement.
But, I've learned by now I'm rather an epic fail at trying to use all of these phrases properly. I blame being from Indiana. ;-)
Sarah
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Katherine Casey < fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
*"Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women."* ...wha?
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Carol Moore dc < carolmooredc@verizon.net> wrote:
On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Since "cis" means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only?
Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.
CM
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
--
Sarah Stierch
Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization.
www.sarahstierch.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever else "cis" is, it's not a scientific term. It's a buzzword that sounds scientific because it derives from the Latin, but in fact it's a coined term that is not used in science.
What makes a term scientific other than that scientists use it?
"Sociologists Kristen Schilt and Laurel Westbrook define *cisgender* as a label for "individuals who have a match between the gender they were assigned at birth, their bodies, and their personal identity" as a complement to *transgender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender*.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender#cite_note-2"
*"Sociology* is the academic study of social behaviour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_behaviour, its origins, development, organisation, and institutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institution. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-1 It is a social science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science that uses various methods of empirical investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_method[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements8-2 and critical analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_analysis[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements4-3 to develop a body of knowledge about social order, social disorder and social change."
Risker/Anne
On 16 January 2015 at 16:33, Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not cis..and it was a term I only learned about a few years ago... but, here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
It means that someone identifies as the gender they were born with. So, if you're born with female parts and you identify as a woman and it's totally inline with who you are as said woman... you're cis.
I think Lightbreather used it in the correct way. I'm not sure why it's an insult. It's more like a scientific term, it seems, then a cultural movement.
But, I've learned by now I'm rather an epic fail at trying to use all of these phrases properly. I blame being from Indiana. ;-)
Sarah
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Katherine Casey < fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
*"Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women."* ...wha?
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Carol Moore dc < carolmooredc@verizon.net> wrote:
On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Since "cis" means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only?
Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.
CM
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
--
Sarah Stierch
Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization.
www.sarahstierch.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On 16 January 2015 at 17:13, Heather Walls hwalls@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever else "cis" is, it's not a scientific term. It's a buzzword that sounds scientific because it derives from the Latin, but in fact it's a coined term that is not used in science.
What makes a term scientific other than that scientists use it?
"Sociologists Kristen Schilt and Laurel Westbrook define *cisgender* as a label for "individuals who have a match between the gender they were assigned at birth, their bodies, and their personal identity" as a complement to *transgender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender*. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender#cite_note-2"
*"Sociology* is the academic study of social behaviour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_behaviour, its origins, development, organisation, and institutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institution.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-1 It is a social science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science that uses various methods of empirical investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_method[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements8-2 and critical analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_analysis [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements4-3 to develop a body of knowledge about social order, social disorder and social change."
Simply because two sociologists say it means X doesn't mean that there's any indication that term is widely accepted even with the academic field of sociology; in fact, the next paragraph of the lede of the article indicates it's only one of many terms that are used by various social science fields. And just to be clear, social science != science; they're two very different things.
The "cis" prefix is most frequently used when there is a fairly equal division between two different presentations. Thus, using this prefix prefix inaccurately reflects the distribution of gender identities. Let's not kid ourselves, no matter what data are being presented, 70% or more of the human population *does* self-identify with the gender assigned at birth. (The whole first paragraph on the origin of the term is original research, but I'm not going to touch it with a 10-foot pole.)
We would never even consider calling people who have two feet "cispedal" or people who have blood pressure in the normal range "cistensive". In fact, there's a word for those with blood pressure in the normal range: "normotensive". But it wouldn't look politically correct to call people who identify with their assigned birth gender as "normogender", which would be the linguistically correct prefix, because that encompasses the majority of people. [For the record, I'd never advocate the use of that term, either.]
Let's just call women "women" or, if it's really felt that we need to be exclusive, "those who self-identify as women".
Risker/Anne
I'm a member of a feminist safe space that simply uses "not men," and leaves it to members to judge if this applies to them. Just a thought.
– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
It's tempting, but I'm not ready to make that leap yet for my purpose. I really want it for women only, which isn't quite the same as "not men." I'm leaning toward Anne's "those who self-identify as women." It was my first instinct, and that's usually the way to go.
Lightbreather
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:40 PM, GorillaWarfare < gorillawarfarewikipedia@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm a member of a feminist safe space that simply uses "not men," and leaves it to members to judge if this applies to them. Just a thought.
– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
The "cis" prefix is most frequently used when there is a fairly equal
division between two different presentations.
Not in some of my circles.
Thus, using this prefix prefix inaccurately reflects the distribution of gender identities. Let's not kid ourselves, no matter what data are being presented, 70% or more of the human population *does* self-identify with the gender assigned at birth. (The whole first paragraph on the origin of the term is original research, but I'm not going to touch it with a 10-foot pole.)
Perhaps labeling that way is a matter of habit, but is it the right thing to do -- to make something other because it's minority?
We would never even consider calling people who have two feet "cispedal" or people who have blood pressure in the normal range "cistensive". In fact, there's a word for those with blood pressure in the normal range: "normotensive". But it wouldn't look politically correct to call people who identify with their assigned birth gender as "normogender", which would be the linguistically correct prefix, because that encompasses the majority of people. [For the record, I'd never advocate the use of that term, either.]
Let's just call women "women" or, if it's really felt that we need to be exclusive, "those who self-identify as women".
Risker/Anne
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
We would never even consider calling people who have two feet "cispedal" or people who have blood pressure in the normal range "cistensive".
Well, yes....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis%E2%80%93trans_isomerism
"In organic chemistry, cis/trans isomerism (also known as geometric isomerism) is a form of stereoisomerism describing the relative orientation of functional groups within a molecule."
Gordo
On 17 January 2015 at 14:06, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
We would never even consider calling people who have two feet "cispedal" or people who have blood pressure in the normal range "cistensive".Well, yes....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis%E2%80%93trans_isomerism
"In organic chemistry, cis/trans isomerism (also known as geometric isomerism) is a form of stereoisomerism describing the relative orientation of functional groups within a molecule."
Thank you for proving my point. I despair of having to defend humanity from comparisons to molecules.
RIsker/ANne
Since I started a minor brouhaha on cisgender, I figured I should provide some examples of women (and feminists) who dislike the phrase. Frankly, I never have gotten a handle on what gender means and never use the phrase gender at all except in gender gap, only because "sex gap" obviously is not useable. I think sexual stereotypes - and the resultant imposed sexual roles, sexual discrimination, sexual abuse, etc. - are the problem; all this talk about gender confuses the issue. People who are born intersex may choose to use that phase or identify with one sex or the other. Those who state they are really individuals of the opposite sex trapped in the wrong body certainly can define themselves as transgenders or transsexuals. But trying to redefine all individuals (straight, gay/lesbian or bi) by whether or not they are transgender or cisgender is absurd.
http://sarahditum.com/2014/04/21/notes-from-a-non-cis-woman/
http://liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-feminist-critique-of-...
http://bugbrennan.com/2012/12/12/cisterhood-is-powerful/
http://uppitybiscuit.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/do-not-call-me-cisgender-you-d...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/378511/cis-ridiculous-christine-sisto
http://bmgnedra.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/sscabdscab-reframing-the-conversati...
http://glosswatch.com/2014/04/20/beauty-and-the-cis/ http://glosswatch.com/2014/04/24/9-reasons-why-cis-isnt-working/
By the way I see Lightbreather mentioned at her talk page that she is a "I am a cisgender, straight, older woman." Now saying that to point out you were born/assigned a woman at birth is considered politically correct. And if LB wants to use that term to describe herself, that is her choice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch#Cisgender_or_...
Yet someone like me who prefers to say I am a "woman born woman" is called a bigot. Such arbitrary enforcement of political correctness of terms is just a power trip to mess with people, IMHO...
On 1/17/2015 11:42 PM, Carol Moore dc wrote:
Since I started a minor brouhaha on cisgender, I figured I should provide some examples of women (and feminists) who dislike the phrase. Frankly, I never have gotten a handle on what gender means and never use the phrase gender at all except in gender gap, only because "sex gap" obviously is not useable. I think sexual stereotypes - and the resultant imposed sexual roles, sexual discrimination, sexual abuse, etc. - are the problem; all this talk about gender confuses the issue. People who are born intersex may choose to use that phase or identify with one sex or the other. Those who state they are really individuals of the opposite sex trapped in the wrong body certainly can define themselves as transgenders or transsexuals. But trying to redefine all individuals (straight, gay/lesbian or bi) by whether or not they are transgender or cisgender is absurd.
http://sarahditum.com/2014/04/21/notes-from-a-non-cis-woman/
http://liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-feminist-critique-of-...
http://bugbrennan.com/2012/12/12/cisterhood-is-powerful/
http://uppitybiscuit.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/do-not-call-me-cisgender-you-d...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/378511/cis-ridiculous-christine-sisto
http://bmgnedra.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/sscabdscab-reframing-the-conversati...
http://glosswatch.com/2014/04/20/beauty-and-the-cis/ http://glosswatch.com/2014/04/24/9-reasons-why-cis-isnt-working/
http://bigboobutch.com/2013/09/16/cis-queerly-not-yours/
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Carol Moore dc carolmooredc@verizon.net wrote:
Since I started a minor brouhaha on cisgender, I figured I should provide some examples of women (and feminists) who dislike the phrase.
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/01/being-called-cis-is-not-oppressive
Best
A. Mani
Prof(Miss) A. Mani [Last_Name. First_Name Format] CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/ sip:girlprofessor@ekiga.net
You know what I want? A place where women can come together and talk. I hope they won't get hung up on - or especially belittle each other - if they prefer to say *about themselves* "I am a woman," or "I am a cisgender woman," or "I am a woman-born-woman," or "I am a trans-woman," or whatever.
And I sure hope that wouldn't be the main thing we talked about.
Lightbreather
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 9:42 PM, Carol Moore dc carolmooredc@verizon.net wrote:
Since I started a minor brouhaha on cisgender, I figured I should provide some examples of women (and feminists) who dislike the phrase. Frankly, I never have gotten a handle on what gender means and never use the phrase gender at all except in gender gap, only because "sex gap" obviously is not useable. I think sexual stereotypes - and the resultant imposed sexual roles, sexual discrimination, sexual abuse, etc. - are the problem; all this talk about gender confuses the issue. People who are born intersex may choose to use that phase or identify with one sex or the other. Those who state they are really individuals of the opposite sex trapped in the wrong body certainly can define themselves as transgenders or transsexuals. But trying to redefine all individuals (straight, gay/lesbian or bi) by whether or not they are transgender or cisgender is absurd.
http://sarahditum.com/2014/04/21/notes-from-a-non-cis-woman/
http://liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a- feminist-critique-of-cisgender/
http://bugbrennan.com/2012/12/12/cisterhood-is-powerful/
http://uppitybiscuit.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/do- not-call-me-cisgender-you-do-not-have-my-permission-to-name-me/
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/378511/cis-ridiculous- christine-sisto
http://bmgnedra.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/sscabdscab- reframing-the-conversation/
http://glosswatch.com/2014/04/20/beauty-and-the-cis/ http://glosswatch.com/2014/04/24/9-reasons-why-cis-isnt-working/
http://bigboobutch.com/2013/09/16/cis-queerly-not-yours/
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I hesitated to use the term, but it seemed to be shorthand for exactly what you just said, Sarah. At least that's how I meant it, and I didn't mean to suggest that it's scientific.
Lightbreather
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not cis..and it was a term I only learned about a few years ago... but, here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
It means that someone identifies as the gender they were born with. So, if you're born with female parts and you identify as a woman and it's totally inline with who you are as said woman... you're cis.
I think Lightbreather used it in the correct way. I'm not sure why it's an insult. It's more like a scientific term, it seems, then a cultural movement.
But, I've learned by now I'm rather an epic fail at trying to use all of these phrases properly. I blame being from Indiana. ;-)
Sarah
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Katherine Casey < fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
*"Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women."* ...wha?
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Carol Moore dc <carolmooredc@verizon.net
wrote:
On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Since "cis" means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only?
Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.
CM
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
--
Sarah Stierch
Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization.
www.sarahstierch.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Is there an area for men only as well? --Base
On 16.01.2015 21:20, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
This was not a helpful or informative comment. I have unsubscribed Bohdan from the list.
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Bohdan Melnychuk base-w@yandex.ru wrote:
Is there an area for men only as well? --Base
On 16.01.2015 21:20, LB wrote:
Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested women would be welcome.
Lightbreather
Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap