Hi all,
Having asked the original question on this thread I thought I might chime in with my thoughts to the responses. When I posted it I imagined I'd get responses from women rather than men so it was interesting that the initial responses came from men and then a discussion ensued about the merits/disbenefits of the idea of Wikipedia dominated by women as it is presently dominated (statistically) by men.
I was thinking of it more in the context of the content on Wikipedia given the issues previously raised on this list so it was interesting to see my idea interpreted in terms of relationships. It had not occurred to me that in asking people (in my mind women) to imagine what Wikipedia would look like if the contribution stats were reversed on the variable of gender that this might be interpreted as some kind of agenda so I ought to state how I do see the issue of women's participation for the purposes of my own campaining Women4Wikipedia http://women4wikipedia.net
It has been insteresting and informative reading about the experiences of various women with Wikipedia both in the media and on this list. Given that my prior experience with Wikipedia is adding one article and reading it for various purposes almost daily, I was not aware that women in general felt they were treated differently on Wikipedia than men or that there were cases where certain topics were potentially the subject of concerted campaigns.
However in getting more women involved with Wikipedia I have to wonder whether, for the person who simply adds a page or two or makes a few edits, whether the image presented in the media is going to represent their experience with Wikiepdia? It doesn't reflect mine and I'm not trying to be or get women to become heavily involved in Wikipedia necessarily but just to 'add their crumb' as the saying goes. I hasten to add that I do not wish to invalidate the negative experiences some women have had with Wikipedia. I feel for people who have been in the position of fighting a battle for what they believe is right and found Wikipedia to have failed their rights and expections. I understand that they feel violated and burned out. I do not wish to justify or invalidate their experience.
I do wish to say though that this experience might depend on the level of controversy of the topic one is editing, not to discount this conflict, but to say that in getting women (or men) involved around the edges of Wikipedia that this is not necessarily going to be their experience. I got in, created my page and got out. I never talked to anyone during this process because there was no need to. I expect that if I were to continue to edit Wikipedia I'd run the risk of entering into an edit war sooner or later. So it is good to see how other people have faired and try to create a supportive environment for women who may encounter such risks.
This is one of the things I am trying to create through Women4Wikipedia. This is not to suggest women are always going to agree but in a sea of men it is nice to find a female face and also (for me) to gain confidence through self-reliance rather than relying on the nearest geek who is often a male. That's what I'm doing here anyway and the way I see my campaign. To me the idea of open source is not much if relatively normal people can't come along and play round the edges, if it is all for the super geeks then it just becomes another silo. I think Wikipedia is fairly unique in this regard in that it is open to everyone and you don't have to be a developer or an expert. A lot of open source groups seem to be for developers whether they brand themselves that way or not.
I see no reason not to also want to help male novices with Wikipedia but given the current issue for Wikipedia is its lack of female contributors I decided to focus on women given that I am one and apparently one of the few. I am currently hosting weekly Twitter chats at http://wthastag.com/Women4wikipedia starting 9am UTC/GMT Monday or 8pm Australian Time (Sydney). Readings & transcripts are at http://women4wikipedia.net
regards
Rosie Williams
http://collectiveaction.com.au
@collectiveact
Hi Rosie!
On 18 February 2011 10:38, Collective Action collective_action@hotmail.com wrote:
Having asked the original question on this thread I thought I might chime in with my thoughts to the responses. When I posted it I imagined I'd get responses from women rather than men so it was interesting that the initial responses came from men and then a discussion ensued about the merits/disbenefits of the idea of Wikipedia dominated by women as it is presently dominated (statistically) by men.
Yeah. Personally I appreciate that men are here, and caring about this issue. I do think though that sometimes it would be more helpful if some of the men here listened a little more and spoke a little less. Women are likelier to be more 'expert' on the gender gap issue and its origins than men are, so a man might usefully aim to learn here when experiences are being shared, rather than teach.
There have I think been a couple of examples here of a woman saying something about her experience, followed by a man seeming to refute/rebut/deny what she said, or tell her she should feel differently about it. That's a normal thing to do --it happens all the time-- but it's not very helpful. If someone is sharing her experience, there's really nothing to debate: it's her experience.
I am currently hosting weekly Twitter chats at http://wthastag.com/Women4wikipedia starting 9am UTC/GMT Monday or 8pm Australian Time (Sydney). Readings & transcripts are at http://women4wikipedia.net
Thank you for starting those chats, and thank you for the site as well (http://women4wikipedia.net/). I am really thrilled to see people starting their own initiatives to help solve this problem, and I appreciate what you're doing :-)
Thanks, Sue
-- Sue Gardner Executive Director Wikimedia Foundation
415 839 6885 office 415 816 9967 cell
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
Dear Susan, Thank you for your very appropriate words.I identify with them. Patricia
--- On Fri, 2/18/11, Sue Gardner sgardner@wikimedia.org wrote:
From: Sue Gardner sgardner@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Women4Wikipedia To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects" gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Collective Action" collective_action@hotmail.com Date: Friday, February 18, 2011, 11:04 AM
Hi Rosie!
On 18 February 2011 10:38, Collective Action collective_action@hotmail.com wrote:
Having asked the original question on this thread I thought I might chime in with my thoughts to the responses. When I posted it I imagined I'd get responses from women rather than men so it was interesting that the initial responses came from men and then a discussion ensued about the merits/disbenefits of the idea of Wikipedia dominated by women as it is presently dominated (statistically) by men.
Yeah. Personally I appreciate that men are here, and caring about this issue. I do think though that sometimes it would be more helpful if some of the men here listened a little more and spoke a little less. Women are likelier to be more 'expert' on the gender gap issue and its origins than men are, so a man might usefully aim to learn here when experiences are being shared, rather than teach.
There have I think been a couple of examples here of a woman saying something about her experience, followed by a man seeming to refute/rebut/deny what she said, or tell her she should feel differently about it. That's a normal thing to do --it happens all the time-- but it's not very helpful. If someone is sharing her experience, there's really nothing to debate: it's her experience.
I am currently hosting weekly Twitter chats at http://wthastag.com/Women4wikipedia starting 9am UTC/GMT Monday or 8pm Australian Time (Sydney). Readings & transcripts are at http://women4wikipedia.net
Thank you for starting those chats, and thank you for the site as well (http://women4wikipedia.net/). I am really thrilled to see people starting their own initiatives to help solve this problem, and I appreciate what you're doing :-)
Thanks, Sue
-- Sue Gardner Executive Director Wikimedia Foundation
415 839 6885 office 415 816 9967 cell
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I do wish to say though that this experience might depend on the level of controversy of the topic one is editing, not to discount this conflict, but to say that in getting women (or men) involved around the edges of Wikipedia that this is not necessarily going to be their experience. regards
Rosie Williams
One goal is for women to be able to participate fully, as editors of controversial subjects and as administrators exercising responsible discretion. There is going to be some flack directed at anyone who engages in those activities, but it should be as comfortable for women to participate as for men.
That's one level, another is general participation by women in a routine way, you notice information is not in Wikipedia and include it on a routine basis as you go about your day. That is where the numbers are.
A third is adequate coverage of notable women and of subjects which are interesting to women.
A fourth is corralling immature phallic energy, and images.
Fred