Christophe, Carol and Fae's notes have set me thinking as to what we could do with these funds,
One of the areas that I understand has been a problem is email harassment, particularly of women and I believe particularly from throwaway accounts.
I was wondering what people on this list would think of some possible changes we could make to the "email this user" system.
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the *email this user *option for people they weren't entitled to email.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
What do people think, if this existed would it help, would anyone have used any of it?
WSC
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, WereSpielChequers < werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
...
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the *email this user *option for people they weren't entitled to email.
This is a great idea. I wish I had this now.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
Also a good idea, but I doubt it would be scalable. We have a hard enough time finding volunteers to moderate this mailing list, much less, hundreds of people's incoming email streams. Plus there would be serious privacy issues to worry about.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
This might be a more workable implementation of the previous idea.
Another idea I've heard would be to let people use email aliases similar to Craigslist. That way you could respond to wiki-related emails without giving away your actual email address.
Some of these ideas were advanced in the last Inspire Campaign on addressing harassment by User:BethNaught:
<goog_252513985>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Allow_users_to_restrict_who_c...
If folks want to work on developing this idea for out more concretely, they can use this page to begin doing so. Eventually, when a proposal is ready and a fuller discussion is needed, I'd need to look into where the appropriate place to go is, because I'm not sure if functions regarding e-mail are handled on a project-by-project basis (and if so, where that is) or if this needs to happen somewhere on Mediawiki.org. I suppose a decent place to start would be the village pump of a specific project to get a conversation started once a proposal is ready.
- Jethro
Chris "Jethro" Schilling I JethroBT (WMF) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:I_JethroBT_(WMF) Community Organizer, Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, WereSpielChequers < werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
...
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the *email this user *option for people they weren't entitled to email.
This is a great idea. I wish I had this now.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
Also a good idea, but I doubt it would be scalable. We have a hard enough time finding volunteers to moderate this mailing list, much less, hundreds of people's incoming email streams. Plus there would be serious privacy issues to worry about.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
This might be a more workable implementation of the previous idea.
Another idea I've heard would be to let people use email aliases similar to Craigslist. That way you could respond to wiki-related emails without giving away your actual email address.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Thanks Ryan and Chris, I've endorsed the Bethnaught proposal which covers all of this idea except the email filter bits. I think the privacy issues of a moderated email stream can be resolved by OTRS style checking of the moderators. As for the staffing issues I'm optimistic that there are plenty of people willing to help this sort of issue if we can identify a role for them. If it does prove difficult to staff we could always make it a service we limit to people who have had problems and asked for help as opposed to an option in their email preferences.
On 9 February 2017 at 22:36, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote: ...
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the email this user option for people they weren't entitled to email.
This is a great idea. I wish I had this now.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
Also a good idea, but I doubt it would be scalable. We have a hard enough time finding volunteers to moderate this mailing list, much less, hundreds of people's incoming email streams. Plus there would be serious privacy issues to worry about.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
This might be a more workable implementation of the previous idea.
Another idea I've heard would be to let people use email aliases similar to Craigslist. That way you could respond to wiki-related emails without giving away your actual email address.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I am extremely, extremely uncomfortable with email moderation. I cannot emphasize this enough. Frankly, I'd rather the NSA be reading my mail than my fellow Wikimedians - they have no actual interest in anything that I'm writing. If moderation became standard, I'd shut off "email this user". It would be a cure far worse than the disease.
It would also be unacceptable for the role accounts that are standard on many projects - on English, we have special role accounts that link directly to the Oversight mailing list, Arbcom, and a few other places. Not only are they moderated by the list owners themselves already, but the contents are usually far more confidential than would be appropriate for a moderator without the same level of access as the list itself.
I do like the idea of being able to block emails from certain accounts or to only accept them from certain accounts.
Risker/Anne
On 12 February 2017 at 08:04, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Ryan and Chris, I've endorsed the Bethnaught proposal which covers all of this idea except the email filter bits. I think the privacy issues of a moderated email stream can be resolved by OTRS style checking of the moderators. As for the staffing issues I'm optimistic that there are plenty of people willing to help this sort of issue if we can identify a role for them. If it does prove difficult to staff we could always make it a service we limit to people who have had problems and asked for help as opposed to an option in their email preferences.
On 9 February 2017 at 22:36, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, WereSpielChequers < werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
...
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the *email this user *option for people they weren't entitled to email.
This is a great idea. I wish I had this now.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
Also a good idea, but I doubt it would be scalable. We have a hard enough time finding volunteers to moderate this mailing list, much less, hundreds of people's incoming email streams. Plus there would be serious privacy issues to worry about.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
This might be a more workable implementation of the previous idea.
Another idea I've heard would be to let people use email aliases similar to Craigslist. That way you could respond to wiki-related emails without giving away your actual email address.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Hello all,
What's everyone's thoughts of filtering email to a repository if the email contains certain words? This could be using tools currently being honed with the Detox project: https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Detox/Resources
This way, they could be viewed or not viewed by the recipient, or the recipient could choose to have the emails caught by the filter to be directly deleted. Yes, people could set up their own filters on their email accounts, but then that puts responsibility on the victims, and arguably wouldn't be as comprehensive as the Detox tools.
I would say users having this "tool" in use might want to have a message on their user page saying they are using such tool to filter potentially harmful communication. This is because these tools are imperfect and innocent communication might be caught inadvertently by the filter and never reach the recipient. I would hate for this to stifle true collaboration and communication efforts, so hopefully this note on the user page (of course at the user's choice), would help to mitigate potential upset from an unanswered communication.
The trouble I would find in using such tools would perhaps affect the most visible and most in-need of the tool of the community, and due to their role, might not be able to use said tools. I'm thinking of administrators and others who might receive communication with inappropriate language not directed at them, but as an example when users are asking for help with situations.
-- Jackiekoerner
On Feb 12, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I am extremely, extremely uncomfortable with email moderation. I cannot emphasize this enough. Frankly, I'd rather the NSA be reading my mail than my fellow Wikimedians - they have no actual interest in anything that I'm writing. If moderation became standard, I'd shut off "email this user". It would be a cure far worse than the disease.
It would also be unacceptable for the role accounts that are standard on many projects - on English, we have special role accounts that link directly to the Oversight mailing list, Arbcom, and a few other places. Not only are they moderated by the list owners themselves already, but the contents are usually far more confidential than would be appropriate for a moderator without the same level of access as the list itself.
I do like the idea of being able to block emails from certain accounts or to only accept them from certain accounts.
Risker/Anne
On 12 February 2017 at 08:04, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Ryan and Chris, I've endorsed the Bethnaught proposal which covers all of this idea except the email filter bits. I think the privacy issues of a moderated email stream can be resolved by OTRS style checking of the moderators. As for the staffing issues I'm optimistic that there are plenty of people willing to help this sort of issue if we can identify a role for them. If it does prove difficult to staff we could always make it a service we limit to people who have had problems and asked for help as opposed to an option in their email preferences.
On 9 February 2017 at 22:36, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote: ...
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the email this user option for people they weren't entitled to email.
This is a great idea. I wish I had this now.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
Also a good idea, but I doubt it would be scalable. We have a hard enough time finding volunteers to moderate this mailing list, much less, hundreds of people's incoming email streams. Plus there would be serious privacy issues to worry about.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
This might be a more workable implementation of the previous idea.
Another idea I've heard would be to let people use email aliases similar to Craigslist. That way you could respond to wiki-related emails without giving away your actual email address.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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Having had a thousand nasty and threatening messages from someone who used about 40 different emails, I still wouldn't like moderation. Is there a way to retroactively check emails? I guess the headers are it, and I always sent those (they were all yahoo mail).
On 2/12/2017 2:25 PM, Risker wrote:
I am extremely, extremely uncomfortable with email moderation. I cannot emphasize this enough. Frankly, I'd rather the NSA be reading my mail than my fellow Wikimedians - they have no actual interest in anything that I'm writing. If moderation became standard, I'd shut off "email this user". It would be a cure far worse than the disease.
Thanks Risker,
Clearly not everyone would opt into it if there was an option to do so. Do you object to the idea of developing an option to opt in to email filtering?
Regards
Jonathan/WereSpielChequers
On 12 Feb 2017, at 19:25, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I am extremely, extremely uncomfortable with email moderation. I cannot emphasize this enough. Frankly, I'd rather the NSA be reading my mail than my fellow Wikimedians - they have no actual interest in anything that I'm writing. If moderation became standard, I'd shut off "email this user". It would be a cure far worse than the disease.
It would also be unacceptable for the role accounts that are standard on many projects - on English, we have special role accounts that link directly to the Oversight mailing list, Arbcom, and a few other places. Not only are they moderated by the list owners themselves already, but the contents are usually far more confidential than would be appropriate for a moderator without the same level of access as the list itself.
I do like the idea of being able to block emails from certain accounts or to only accept them from certain accounts.
Risker/Anne
On 12 February 2017 at 08:04, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Ryan and Chris, I've endorsed the Bethnaught proposal which covers all of this idea except the email filter bits. I think the privacy issues of a moderated email stream can be resolved by OTRS style checking of the moderators. As for the staffing issues I'm optimistic that there are plenty of people willing to help this sort of issue if we can identify a role for them. If it does prove difficult to staff we could always make it a service we limit to people who have had problems and asked for help as opposed to an option in their email preferences.
On 9 February 2017 at 22:36, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote: ...
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the email this user option for people they weren't entitled to email.
This is a great idea. I wish I had this now.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
Also a good idea, but I doubt it would be scalable. We have a hard enough time finding volunteers to moderate this mailing list, much less, hundreds of people's incoming email streams. Plus there would be serious privacy issues to worry about.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
This might be a more workable implementation of the previous idea.
Another idea I've heard would be to let people use email aliases similar to Craigslist. That way you could respond to wiki-related emails without giving away your actual email address.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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On 12 February 2017 at 17:22, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Risker,
Clearly not everyone would opt into it if there was an option to do so. Do you object to the idea of developing an option to opt in to email filtering?
Regards
Jonathan/WereSpielChequers
Yes, I do, to be honest. The other proposals included in this discussion would be far, far more effective in limiting unwanted or inappropriate emails, without requiring the need to recruit and screen a large number of volunteers to "screen out" inappropriate emails. Honestly, the idea that we'd want people to turn their volunteer time over to screening emails rather than doing everything else that needs to be done is kind of worrisome; current volunteers already have a plethora of activities to participate in, many of which can also assist in harassment reduction, and I'm not sure I'd like to know the psychological profile of people who would volunteer specifically to screen emails. Hiring staff to do this would be outrageous, both from the optics perspective, and more importantly from the cost perspective; the $500,000 grant would probably not even cover a year's worth of salaries.
There are some truly excellent ideas on how to manage email harassment already in this thread, most particularly those that center on the individual users selecting with whom they wish to correspond off-wiki. I think these have a lot of potential to provide support to our volunteers. Do keep in mind, though, that a disproportionate number of users who have been on the receiving end of email harassment are those who are expected to be available via email, and for whom much email would include confidential or private information relating to their volunteer tasks: oversighters, checkusers, Arbcom members, and in some cases administrators. It would be inappropriate for them to use moderated email.
Risker/Anne
Anne,
I do think you misinterpreted what I was suggesting and perhaps the project. The artificial intelligence tool is currently being trained using volunteers to rank messages, but once launched it would operate and only need humans for maintenance, I imagine.
-- Jackie Koerner
On Feb 12, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
On 12 February 2017 at 17:22, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Risker,
Clearly not everyone would opt into it if there was an option to do so. Do you object to the idea of developing an option to opt in to email filtering?
Regards
Jonathan/WereSpielChequers
Yes, I do, to be honest. The other proposals included in this discussion would be far, far more effective in limiting unwanted or inappropriate emails, without requiring the need to recruit and screen a large number of volunteers to "screen out" inappropriate emails. Honestly, the idea that we'd want people to turn their volunteer time over to screening emails rather than doing everything else that needs to be done is kind of worrisome; current volunteers already have a plethora of activities to participate in, many of which can also assist in harassment reduction, and I'm not sure I'd like to know the psychological profile of people who would volunteer specifically to screen emails. Hiring staff to do this would be outrageous, both from the optics perspective, and more importantly from the cost perspective; the $500,000 grant would probably not even cover a year's worth of salaries.
There are some truly excellent ideas on how to manage email harassment already in this thread, most particularly those that center on the individual users selecting with whom they wish to correspond off-wiki. I think these have a lot of potential to provide support to our volunteers. Do keep in mind, though, that a disproportionate number of users who have been on the receiving end of email harassment are those who are expected to be available via email, and for whom much email would include confidential or private information relating to their volunteer tasks: oversighters, checkusers, Arbcom members, and in some cases administrators. It would be inappropriate for them to use moderated email.
Risker/Anne
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I agree with Risker here.
Pine
On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
On 12 February 2017 at 17:22, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Risker,
Clearly not everyone would opt into it if there was an option to do so. Do you object to the idea of developing an option to opt in to email filtering?
Regards
Jonathan/WereSpielChequers
Yes, I do, to be honest. The other proposals included in this discussion would be far, far more effective in limiting unwanted or inappropriate emails, without requiring the need to recruit and screen a large number of volunteers to "screen out" inappropriate emails. Honestly, the idea that we'd want people to turn their volunteer time over to screening emails rather than doing everything else that needs to be done is kind of worrisome; current volunteers already have a plethora of activities to participate in, many of which can also assist in harassment reduction, and I'm not sure I'd like to know the psychological profile of people who would volunteer specifically to screen emails. Hiring staff to do this would be outrageous, both from the optics perspective, and more importantly from the cost perspective; the $500,000 grant would probably not even cover a year's worth of salaries.
There are some truly excellent ideas on how to manage email harassment already in this thread, most particularly those that center on the individual users selecting with whom they wish to correspond off-wiki. I think these have a lot of potential to provide support to our volunteers. Do keep in mind, though, that a disproportionate number of users who have been on the receiving end of email harassment are those who are expected to be available via email, and for whom much email would include confidential or private information relating to their volunteer tasks: oversighters, checkusers, Arbcom members, and in some cases administrators. It would be inappropriate for them to use moderated email.
Risker/Anne
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On 02/12/2017 03:38 PM, Risker wrote:
On 12 February 2017 at 17:22, Jonathan Cardy <werespielchequers@gmail.com mailto:werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
Clearly not everyone would opt into it if there was an option to do so. Do you object to the idea of developing an option to opt in to email filtering?Yes, I do, to be honest. The other proposals included in this discussion would be far, far more effective in limiting unwanted or inappropriate emails, without requiring the need to recruit and screen a large number of volunteers to "screen out" inappropriate emails. Honestly, the idea that we'd want people to turn their volunteer time over to screening emails rather than doing everything else that needs to be done is kind of worrisome; current volunteers already have a plethora of activities to participate in, many of which can also assist in harassment reduction, and I'm not sure I'd like to know the psychological profile of people who would volunteer specifically to screen emails. Hiring staff to do this would be outrageous, both from the optics perspective, and more importantly from the cost perspective; the $500,000 grant would probably not even cover a year's worth of salaries.
I agree, and I'd go a little further:
The very idea that separating things into "good guys" and "bad guys" is both unrealistic, and damaging to the objective of creating a healthier social environment. Anyone familiar with Wikimedia's history will recognize that some very damaging things have been said and done by Wikimedia staff and board -- not just by some 9% personae non grata. We might not all agree on the specifics, but I think we can agree that we don't have a cadre of virtuous individuals utterly beyond reproach to unleash on this problem. And even if we did, perhaps there would be better ways to put them to work.
It's not realistic to set the expectation that some parental figure is going to prevent harassment and bullying, and in practice, we don't have any guarantee that such intervention would always make things better, rather than worse.
There are some truly excellent ideas on how to manage email harassment already in this thread, most particularly those that center on the individual users selecting with whom they wish to correspond off-wiki. I think these have a lot of potential to provide support to our volunteers. Do keep in mind, though, that a disproportionate number of users who have been on the receiving end of email harassment are those who are expected to be available via email, and for whom much email would include confidential or private information relating to their volunteer tasks: oversighters, checkusers, Arbcom members, and in some cases administrators. It would be inappropriate for them to use moderated email.
Wise words, important angles to consider.
-Pete
Oh, I do certainly think this should be a user's choice and one they could turn on or off. What do you all think about the whole thought?
I have been also reflecting on what others wrote about getting at the root of the issue instead of addressing symptoms only. The trouble with making awareness pieces is the people who generally take advantage of such awareness opportunities are people who are already aware of the issues. Allies have been proven to affect bullying in schools. Do you all think we could create allies in the community? How would you imagine it? This wouldn't affect the direct communications immediately, but perhaps it could impact a culture change with evolution of behavior norms.
-- Jackiekoerner
On Feb 12, 2017, at 4:22 PM, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Risker,
Clearly not everyone would opt into it if there was an option to do so. Do you object to the idea of developing an option to opt in to email filtering?
Regards
Jonathan/WereSpielChequers
On 12 Feb 2017, at 19:25, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I am extremely, extremely uncomfortable with email moderation. I cannot emphasize this enough. Frankly, I'd rather the NSA be reading my mail than my fellow Wikimedians - they have no actual interest in anything that I'm writing. If moderation became standard, I'd shut off "email this user". It would be a cure far worse than the disease.
It would also be unacceptable for the role accounts that are standard on many projects - on English, we have special role accounts that link directly to the Oversight mailing list, Arbcom, and a few other places. Not only are they moderated by the list owners themselves already, but the contents are usually far more confidential than would be appropriate for a moderator without the same level of access as the list itself.
I do like the idea of being able to block emails from certain accounts or to only accept them from certain accounts.
Risker/Anne
On 12 February 2017 at 08:04, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Ryan and Chris, I've endorsed the Bethnaught proposal which covers all of this idea except the email filter bits. I think the privacy issues of a moderated email stream can be resolved by OTRS style checking of the moderators. As for the staffing issues I'm optimistic that there are plenty of people willing to help this sort of issue if we can identify a role for them. If it does prove difficult to staff we could always make it a service we limit to people who have had problems and asked for help as opposed to an option in their email preferences.
On 9 February 2017 at 22:36, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote: ...
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the email this user option for people they weren't entitled to email.
This is a great idea. I wish I had this now.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
Also a good idea, but I doubt it would be scalable. We have a hard enough time finding volunteers to moderate this mailing list, much less, hundreds of people's incoming email streams. Plus there would be serious privacy issues to worry about.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
This might be a more workable implementation of the previous idea.
Another idea I've heard would be to let people use email aliases similar to Craigslist. That way you could respond to wiki-related emails without giving away your actual email address.
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On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:44 PM, WereSpielChequers < werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
Christophe, Carol and Fae's notes have set me thinking as to what we could do with these funds,
One of the areas that I understand has been a problem is email harassment, particularly of women and I believe particularly from throwaway accounts.
I was wondering what people on this list would think of some possible changes we could make to the "email this user" system.
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the *email this user *option for people they weren't entitled to email.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
What do people think, if this existed would it help, would anyone have used any of it?
WSC
Why not go a step further, and allow people to specifically permit which users can contact them by e-mail? Anyone else can contact them on their talkpage, the preferred method of communication in any case.
Why not go a step further, and allow people to specifically permit which users can contact them by e-mail? Anyone else can contact them on their talkpage, the preferred method of communication in any case.
I, too, give a big +1 to this specifically and the concept in general.
Admins already have a slight version of this ability in the “prevent this user from sending email” option under the block menu. I must admit that in my more active days with the mop I have found it quite useful to add “without right of correspondence” (dark historical associations notwithstanding) to the block message in the case of some users.
Daniel Case
On the face of it, looks like a good idea. Would depend on being reasonably technically practicable. I would probably not opt in, but if I started to get annoying email, would like to be able to block it selectively.
Cheers,
Peter
From: Gendergap [mailto:gendergap-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of WereSpielChequers Sent: Thursday, 09 February 2017 11:45 PM To: Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the participation of women within Wikimedia projects. Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Craigslist founder donates $500K to curb Wikipedia trolls - Email filters?
Christophe, Carol and Fae's notes have set me thinking as to what we could do with these funds,
One of the areas that I understand has been a problem is email harassment, particularly of women and I believe particularly from throwaway accounts.
I was wondering what people on this list would think of some possible changes we could make to the "email this user" system.
The first would be to allow editors to set their email to only receive from confirmed or even extended confirmed accounts. This would be invisible to new editors, they'd just not see the email this user option for people they weren't entitled to email.
The second would be an opt in Email moderation service. Similarly to only receiving email from confirmed or extended confirmed accounts, this would enable editors to opt all or parts of their email via the "email this user" function into a moderated stream. Much as with moderated posts to lists like this, a list admin would see the email and either approve it or take other action. You'd presumably need to having something on the send email screen to say that "this editor has opted into email moderation and your email will be delayed slightly before being screened and forwarded" You'd also need a group of volunteers to do the moderation, spot abusive emails and block abusers.
The third would be an AI driven filter that people could opt into and which would screen emails going through this system and put high risk ones into a moderation queue.
What do people think, if this existed would it help, would anyone have used any of it?
WSC