I think this might interest some members on this list: https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/the-pie-is-rotten-re-evaluating-tech-fem... It would be interesting to hear responses to the article.
One of my personal hopes is that technologies and tech organizations promote meritocracy and enhance well-being of their employees and society. One harsh alternative is that they create crushing technological bureaucracies and consolidate opportunities inside of a relatively small number of people and organizations, while those less fortunate are left out in the cold.
Pine
On 12/17/2015 04:22 PM, Pine W wrote:
One of my personal hopes is that technologies and tech organizations promote meritocracy
BTW: "meritocracy" can be a bit of a contentious term in this contexts:
Interesting read - the bit about T-shirts and Hackathons has been the subject of gendergap workgroup discussions at WMNL. Btw, swag = "stuff we all get"
I like a few of the ideas, such as geeky nerds may become more misogynist than non-geeky non-nerdy men because of the bullying they underwent as schoolkids. I would say that fits with studies of perpetrators who end up in prison. That could also be the reason for the weirdly harsh language used in some of the Gamergate battlegrounds. The other thing I agree with is that the concept of a meritocracy is a myth and that our society values strange behaviors, such as the ability to act like an entrepreneur while pulling a regular paycheck, which is a contradiction in terms.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Joseph Reagle joseph.2011@reagle.org wrote:
On 12/17/2015 04:22 PM, Pine W wrote:
One of my personal hopes is that technologies and tech organizations promote meritocracy
BTW: "meritocracy" can be a bit of a contentious term in this contexts:
http://reagle.org/joseph/2015/merit/merit.html
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I like a few of the ideas, such as geeky nerds may become more misogynist than non-geeky non-nerdy men because of the bullying >they underwent as schoolkids. I would say that fits with studies of perpetrators who end up in prison. That could also be the reason >for >the weirdly harsh language used in some of the Gamergate battlegrounds.
You think? Sorry for the sarcasm, but as this insight has been percolating around the feminist Internet lately I’ve been surprised it took this long (I suppose it’s an example that shows that women can be just as oblivious to a male perspective as the other way around). It was obvious to me that was part of what was in play during Gamergate. In fact, having been at one time (not my whole teenage years) part of that geek/nerd culture, I could have predicted Gamergate years ago. When I was 14 or so, about 1982, I recall reading an article in Dragon magazine by a male (of course) writer calling on fellow gamers to be more accommodating to the women involved in D&D and RPG more (ahem) broadly at the time. He pointed specifically to a woman he knew who, in a major tournament at a convention, more or less singlehandedly saved her entire party, only to passed over for the “best female player” award or something like that in favor of what he described as a “silent, dumb-blond type woman.” But what has really stuck in my mind over the years was his account of a fellow DM showing him a list of NPCs that populated a city he’d created for one of his campaigns. The guy noted that he’d given all the women high charisma and low strength, “so they’ll be easier to rape when their city gets conquered.” The writer anticipated the likely response (which I’m sure he’d heard in real life) that that was “realistic” by asking “Does your fantasy world also have high unemployment, runaway inflation and pollution just like our world does? I didn’t think so.” Perhaps I was so aware of this that I thought, during Gamergate, that everyone else opposed to it was, too, and that their remarks were taking this into account. I began to suspect after a while that they weren’t, and now I know, unfortunately, that I was right. To bring this back to the Wikipedia gender gap issue, it is useful to remember that rhetoric treating the nerds as one and the same as the frat guys (so to speak) is likely to backfire in constructively resolving issues where that is possible (IOW, males who don’t feel they’ve been allowed to share a great deal, if at all, in this male-privilege thing are likely to deeply resent being accused of doing so). I would write more, but I have to get ready to go out and see “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.” With my wife. Daniel Case (currently wearing a black T-shirt I bought at Wal-Mart depicting an exasperated stormtrooper at the Mos Eisley cantina bar framed by the meme-style words “Those were the droids / I was looking for!”
the pie may be rotten, but its the only one we've got
i.e. silicon valley does not work very well; it reflects the values of a technocratic elite, with a lot of privilege and bias.
as we continue culture change going forward, there will be a critical mass of diversity, where organisations will become more productive. http://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/article/teams-critical-mass-women-let-them-%... what are now niche orgs will outperform; larger orgs will see the advantage of more well rounded workers, and diversity in their teams.
we will have to improve the pie one slice at a time.
jim hayes
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case < dancase@frontiernet.net> wrote:
I like a few of the ideas, such as geeky nerds may become more misogynist
than non-geeky non-nerdy men because of the bullying >they underwent as schoolkids. I would say that fits with studies of perpetrators who end up in prison. That could also be the reason >for >the weirdly harsh language used in some of the Gamergate battlegrounds.
You think?
Sorry for the sarcasm, but as this insight has been percolating around the feminist Internet lately I’ve been surprised it took this long (I suppose it’s an example that shows that women can be just as oblivious to a male perspective as the other way around). It was obvious to me that was part of what was in play during Gamergate.
In fact, having been at one time (not my whole teenage years) part of that geek/nerd culture, I could have predicted Gamergate years ago. When I was 14 or so, about 1982, I recall reading an article in *Dragon* magazine by a male (of course) writer calling on fellow gamers to be more accommodating to the women involved in D&D and RPG more (ahem) broadly at the time. He pointed specifically to a woman he knew who, in a major tournament at a convention, more or less singlehandedly saved her entire party, only to passed over for the “best female player” award or something like that in favor of what he described as a “silent, dumb-blond type woman.” But what has really stuck in my mind over the years was his account of a fellow DM showing him a list of NPCs that populated a city he’d created for one of his campaigns. The guy noted that he’d given all the women high charisma and low strength, “so they’ll be easier to rape when their city gets conquered.” The writer anticipated the likely response (which I’m sure he’d heard in real life) that that was “realistic” by asking “Does your fantasy world also have high unemployment, runaway inflation and pollution just like our world does? I didn’t think so.”
Perhaps I was so aware of this that I thought, during Gamergate, that everyone else opposed to it was, too, and that their remarks were taking this into account. I began to suspect after a while that they weren’t, and now I know, unfortunately, that I was right.
To bring this back to the Wikipedia gender gap issue, it is useful to remember that rhetoric treating the nerds as one and the same as the frat guys (so to speak) is likely to backfire in constructively resolving issues where that is possible (IOW, males who don’t feel they’ve been allowed to share a great deal, if at all, in this male-privilege thing are likely to deeply resent being accused of doing so).
I would write more, but I have to get ready to go out and see “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.”
With my wife.
Daniel Case (currently wearing a black T-shirt I bought at Wal-Mart depicting an exasperated stormtrooper at the Mos Eisley cantina bar framed by the meme-style words “Those *were* the droids / I was looking for!”
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