I'm looking for a rationale as to why men are needed on a list dedicated to help increase female participation. Most of the successes I'm seeing in this area comes from women. Look at Wikipedia4Women. It is run by women. Maybe I just can't see all the wonderful things men are doing. It would be great to get a man's perspective on how men are specifically helping to address this gender gap:
1. What women's focused content have you, as a man, improved on Wikipedia and other projects since joining this mailing list?
2. What offline events specifically have you, as a man, created and run specifically run that were marketed at women to help specifically increase the participation of women on Wikipedia?
3. What online events specifically have you, as a man, created and run specifically run that were marketed at women to help specifically increase the participation of women on Wikipedia?
4. As a man, how much time do you spend thinking about the content of your posts and how people, who specifically identify as women, will view the content they post? Do you worry about your posts being viewed as using gendered language, and insulting to women?
5. What help have you provided to women on this list, when the women have expressed concerns? (Note: Responding to an e-mail does not count.) How many good article situations that people have mentioned have you stepped in to help with? How many articles, categories, policy pages have you, as a man, gone to edit because of requests for help on the list?
6. What have you, as a man, done to help make women, specifically because the contributor is female, become administrators on all WMF projects since joining the list?
7. How many times have you, as a man, contacted other men offlist because of the other man's onlist behaviour being problematic and discriminatory against women, working counter to the goal of helping increase women's participation on Wikipedia?
8. As a man, how many contacts have you provided to women on the list to help them accomplish of increasing women's participation on Wikipedia? As a man, how much assistance have you provided with web programming? As a man, how much financial assistance you have provided towards women run projects to increase women's participation on Wikipedia? As a man, how much legal assistance have you provided for women trying to run these projects?
I can't wait to hear about all the good work that men on the list have been doing to help increase the participation rates of women!
I'm looking for a rationale as to why men are needed on a list dedicated to help increase female participation. Most of the successes I'm seeing in this area comes from women. Look at Wikipedia4Women. It is run by women. Maybe I just can't see all the wonderful things men are doing. It would be great to get a man's perspective on how men are specifically helping to address this gender gap:
- What women's focused content have you, as a man, improved on
Wikipedia and other projects since joining this mailing list?
I created the article Metaverse Mod Squad a very interesting business started and run by a woman. I updated Homaidan Al-Turki an article I worked on back in November, 2006.
- What offline events specifically have you, as a man, created and run
specifically run that were marketed at women to help specifically increase the participation of women on Wikipedia?
- What online events specifically have you, as a man, created and run
specifically run that were marketed at women to help specifically increase the participation of women on Wikipedia?
- As a man, how much time do you spend thinking about the content of
your posts and how people, who specifically identify as women, will view the content they post? Do you worry about your posts being viewed as using gendered language, and insulting to women?
Much thinking, particularly about splitting (psychology)
- What help have you provided to women on this list, when the women
have expressed concerns? (Note: Responding to an e-mail does not count.) How many good article situations that people have mentioned have you stepped in to help with? How many articles, categories, policy pages have you, as a man, gone to edit because of requests for help on the list?
This edit: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Na...
- What have you, as a man, done to help make women, specifically
because the contributor is female, become administrators on all WMF projects since joining the list?
- How many times have you, as a man, contacted other men offlist
because of the other man's onlist behaviour being problematic and discriminatory against women, working counter to the goal of helping increase women's participation on Wikipedia?
- As a man, how many contacts have you provided to women on the list to
help them accomplish of increasing women's participation on Wikipedia? As a man, how much assistance have you provided with web programming? As a man, how much financial assistance you have provided towards women run projects to increase women's participation on Wikipedia? As a man, how much legal assistance have you provided for women trying to run these projects?
I can't wait to hear about all the good work that men on the list have been doing to help increase the participation rates of women!
-- mobile: 0412183663 twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com
So a bit.
Fred
And, perhaps more importantly, I took the issue seriously and supported the creation of this list. Talking to each other is a good way to identify and resolve issues.
Fred
I'm looking for a rationale as to why men are needed on a list dedicated to help increase female participation. Most of the successes I'm seeing in this area comes from women. Look at Wikipedia4Women. It is run by women. Maybe I just can't see all the wonderful things men are doing. It would be great to get a man's perspective on how men are specifically helping to address this gender gap:
- What women's focused content have you, as a man, improved on
Wikipedia and other projects since joining this mailing list?
I created the article Metaverse Mod Squad a very interesting business started and run by a woman. I updated Homaidan Al-Turki an article I worked on back in November, 2006.
- What offline events specifically have you, as a man, created and
run specifically run that were marketed at women to help specifically increase the participation of women on Wikipedia?
- What online events specifically have you, as a man, created and run
specifically run that were marketed at women to help specifically increase the participation of women on Wikipedia?
- As a man, how much time do you spend thinking about the content of
your posts and how people, who specifically identify as women, will view the content they post? Do you worry about your posts being viewed as using gendered language, and insulting to women?
Much thinking, particularly about splitting (psychology)
- What help have you provided to women on this list, when the women
have expressed concerns? (Note: Responding to an e-mail does not count.) How many good article situations that people have mentioned have you stepped in to help with? How many articles, categories, policy pages have you, as a man, gone to edit because of requests for help on the list?
This edit: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Na...
- What have you, as a man, done to help make women, specifically
because the contributor is female, become administrators on all WMF projects since joining the list?
- How many times have you, as a man, contacted other men offlist
because of the other man's onlist behaviour being problematic and discriminatory against women, working counter to the goal of helping increase women's participation on Wikipedia?
- As a man, how many contacts have you provided to women on the list
to help them accomplish of increasing women's participation on Wikipedia? As a man, how much assistance have you provided with web programming? As a man, how much financial assistance you have provided towards women run projects to increase women's participation on Wikipedia? As a man, how much legal assistance have you provided for women trying to run these projects?
I can't wait to hear about all the good work that men on the list have been doing to help increase the participation rates of women!
-- mobile: 0412183663 twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com
So a bit.
Fred
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net wrote:
And, perhaps more importantly, I took the issue seriously and supported the creation of this list. Talking to each other is a good way to identify and resolve issues.
Fred,
You may think you took it seriously but it does not appear to be, as a female, that you did. I've seen you dominate the conversation. I've seen you make jokes about gendered language. I've seen you focus not on helping real concerns about women on the list but rather, focusing on your own concerns.
Is the point of this list: Men teaching women who already use Wikipedia how to use it better and making men feel better about the low participation rates of women? Or is the purpose about providing a platform where women have to be quiet about men saying problematic things because men might be offended?
The whole conversation about male involvement AS IT PERTAINS TO WOMEN'S NEEDS is being dominated by men WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT WOMEN ARE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THEM.
As a man, do you think that the body of your posts to this list would undergo scrutiny by women who already have issues with WMF and women? If the answer is yes, then you have a lot to learn and perhaps a list dedicated to helping improve women's participation rates on Wikipedia isn't the best place to teach you. (Because this would get in the way of the group's mission.)
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Laura Hale laura@fanhistory.com wrote:
[...] The whole conversation about male involvement AS IT PERTAINS TO WOMEN'S NEEDS is being dominated by men WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT WOMEN ARE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THEM.
1. I agree that male conversation has inappropriately dominated the list.
2. With that said - Laura, your comments today are making me uncomfortable and feel hostile to me.
If this degenerates into a hyper-versus-male-feminist debate we're all losing.
If other women here feel that there's a consensus that Laura is speaking the truth as you say it, perhaps it is time for another list.
If not, can we go back to my question on the other thread as to the differing problems before us - whether I've identified and delineated in a correct and useful manner, and what to do about the differing nature of those problems / discussions - and attempt to find a solution that's productive for everyone?