dear sarah
i want to give you a small feedback about your entries here about a comment i did. (i found this list with a notice on my userpage in the german wikipedia)
"Pro i like her big tits :-) Bunnyfrosch (Diskussion) 22:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)"
there were 2 contra votes before, one argued not educational and questioned: "Why manga woman rhymes with big tits?" the other replies the "not educational" accusation. both arguments are bullshit in my opinion. because all is educational or nothing, but i am to obliging to told a another users his/her meaning is bullshit. for example if i want to know how a piece of shit looks like, a picture of a piece of shit ist educational, and if i want to know something about the frontieres of texas, a picture of a map coult very helpfully/educational. if people naming something not educational, they want to say somthing diffrent. ( note this is my personal pov!) but they vote this way, but really really often simply mean: "i hate this pic" or "i hate this user" or "i hate every kind of nudity in the commons"
in german i often give persons a longer feedback, in english i spare the longer feedback. (you can read why^^) so i choose a short pro vote, applying to the first contra. and by the way, i am not addicted to big or small boobs - i couldn't care less! if i had choose a longer explanation for my vote, it would like: "wikipedia needs well draught anime pictures, with common licences, this one is a great animation of a girl or transsexual in a beautyfull landscape". so, thats the reason i vote with pro.
but there was no need for a argumentaion, when the contra-side argues with "not educational"
i hope this will help you, to understand my diction in the comment.
best regards le frog du rabbit
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 16:32, Bob Sponge metzgerhandwerk.hat.tradition@googlemail.com wrote:
dear sarah
i want to give you a small feedback about your entries here about a comment i did. (i found this list with a notice on my userpage in the german wikipedia)
"Pro i like her big tits :-) Bunnyfrosch (Diskussion) 22:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)"
there were 2 contra votes before, one argued not educational and questioned: "Why manga woman rhymes with big tits?" the other replies the "not educational" accusation. both arguments are bullshit in my opinion. because all is educational or nothing, but i am to obliging to told a another users his/her meaning is bullshit. for example if i want to know how a piece of shit looks like, a picture of a piece of shit ist educational, and if i want to know something about the frontieres of texas, a picture of a map coult very helpfully/educational. if people naming something not educational, they want to say somthing diffrent. ( note this is my personal pov!) but they vote this way, but really really often simply mean: "i hate this pic" or "i hate this user" or "i hate every kind of nudity in the commons"
in german i often give persons a longer feedback, in english i spare the longer feedback. (you can read why^^) so i choose a short pro vote, applying to the first contra. and by the way, i am not addicted to big or small boobs - i couldn't care less! if i had choose a longer explanation for my vote, it would like: "wikipedia needs well draught anime pictures, with common licences, this one is a great animation of a girl or transsexual in a beautyfull landscape". so, thats the reason i vote with pro.
but there was no need for a argumentaion, when the contra-side argues with "not educational"
i hope this will help you, to understand my diction in the comment.
best regards le frog du rabbit
Bob, thanks for your explanation. It's appreciated.
The thing is this: some of us would like to attract more women editors to Wikipedia, so that women have more of a voice, and perhaps also to change the culture of Wikipedia a little.
It's arguably not in a woman's interests to hang around on a talk page where people are posting about big tits. It may be in the project's interests to have more women there, but it's hard to see how it could be in the interests of the individual women.
It doesn't really matter what the intention is behind the words, because all we see are the words themselves. For some women (not all, but some), these words effectively mean, "The way you see the world is not represented here," or "Go away."
That's one of the reasons it's a problem.
Sarah
Sarah
Speak for yourself. I'm also a woman and i don't see that "you're not welcome" in his comment, and also can't see why that particular comment would in some way made girls run out commons. _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
2011/5/23 Sarah slimvirgin@gmail.com
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 16:32, Bob Sponge metzgerhandwerk.hat.tradition@googlemail.com wrote:
dear sarah
i want to give you a small feedback about your entries here about a comment i did. (i found this list with a notice on my userpage in the german wikipedia)
"Pro i like her big tits :-) Bunnyfrosch (Diskussion) 22:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)"
there were 2 contra votes before, one argued not educational and questioned: "Why manga woman rhymes with big tits?" the other replies the "not educational" accusation. both arguments are bullshit in my opinion. because all is educational or nothing, but i am to obliging to told a another users his/her meaning is bullshit. for example if i want to know how a piece of shit looks like, a picture of a piece of shit ist educational, and if i want to know something about the frontieres of texas, a picture of a map coult very helpfully/educational. if people naming something not educational, they want to say somthing diffrent. ( note this is my personal pov!) but they vote this way, but really really often simply mean: "i hate this pic" or "i hate this user" or "i hate every kind of nudity in the commons"
in german i often give persons a longer feedback, in english i spare the longer feedback. (you can read why^^) so i choose a short pro vote, applying to the first contra. and by the way, i am not addicted to big or small boobs - i couldn't care less! if i had choose a longer explanation for my vote, it would like: "wikipedia needs well draught anime pictures, with common licences, this one is a great animation of a girl or transsexual in a beautyfull landscape". so, thats the reason i vote with pro.
but there was no need for a argumentaion, when the contra-side argues with "not educational"
i hope this will help you, to understand my diction in the comment.
best regards le frog du rabbit
Bob, thanks for your explanation. It's appreciated.
The thing is this: some of us would like to attract more women editors to Wikipedia, so that women have more of a voice, and perhaps also to change the culture of Wikipedia a little.
It's arguably not in a woman's interests to hang around on a talk page where people are posting about big tits. It may be in the project's interests to have more women there, but it's hard to see how it could be in the interests of the individual women.
It doesn't really matter what the intention is behind the words, because all we see are the words themselves. For some women (not all, but some), these words effectively mean, "The way you see the world is not represented here," or "Go away."
That's one of the reasons it's a problem.
Sarah
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Comments like that don't make me run out of commons, but they do get an eye roll from me at the very least. I don't see why that kind of comment is necessary.
The images or comments are not what keep me from participating in commons, it's not having a clear sense of whether or not comments like that are the norm on commons or considered acceptable, as well as not knowing the best way to respond. I spend most of my time on a smaller wiki, where I have a better sense of what the rules are and who to contact within that community for advice on how to handle that kind of thing. Since I don't have as good a sense of the issues on Commons, I usually don't comment.
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
Sarah
Speak for yourself. I'm also a woman and i don't see that "you're not welcome" in his comment, and also can't see why that particular comment would in some way made girls run out commons. _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
2011/5/23 Sarah slimvirgin@gmail.com
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 16:32, Bob Sponge metzgerhandwerk.hat.tradition@googlemail.com wrote:
dear sarah
i want to give you a small feedback about your entries here about a comment i did. (i found this list with a notice on my userpage in the german wikipedia)
"Pro i like her big tits :-) Bunnyfrosch (Diskussion) 22:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)"
there were 2 contra votes before, one argued not educational and questioned: "Why manga woman rhymes with big tits?" the other replies the "not educational" accusation. both arguments are bullshit in my opinion. because all is educational or nothing, but i am to obliging to told a another users his/her meaning is bullshit. for example if i want to know how a piece of shit looks like, a picture of a piece of shit ist educational, and if i want to know something about the frontieres of texas, a picture of a map coult very helpfully/educational. if people naming something not educational, they want to say somthing diffrent. ( note this is my personal pov!) but they vote this way, but really really often simply mean: "i hate this pic" or "i hate this user" or "i hate every kind of nudity in the commons"
in german i often give persons a longer feedback, in english i spare the longer feedback. (you can read why^^) so i choose a short pro vote, applying to the first contra. and by the way, i am not addicted to big or small boobs - i couldn't care less! if i had choose a longer explanation for my vote, it would like: "wikipedia needs well draught anime pictures, with common licences, this one is a great animation of a girl or transsexual in a beautyfull landscape". so, thats the reason i vote with pro.
but there was no need for a argumentaion, when the contra-side argues with "not educational"
i hope this will help you, to understand my diction in the comment.
best regards le frog du rabbit
Bob, thanks for your explanation. It's appreciated.
The thing is this: some of us would like to attract more women editors to Wikipedia, so that women have more of a voice, and perhaps also to change the culture of Wikipedia a little.
It's arguably not in a woman's interests to hang around on a talk page where people are posting about big tits. It may be in the project's interests to have more women there, but it's hard to see how it could be in the interests of the individual women.
It doesn't really matter what the intention is behind the words, because all we see are the words themselves. For some women (not all, but some), these words effectively mean, "The way you see the world is not represented here," or "Go away."
That's one of the reasons it's a problem.
Sarah
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Those types of comments are a lot worse than unnecessary. They create a sexualized environment that is exclusionary to anyone who isn't a heterosexual male. If this doesn't make sense to you, please read through http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment
These types of comments should be removed on sight. If you see them, please delete them or email me. Thanks.
Ryan Kaldari
On 5/23/11 11:48 AM, Nicole Willson wrote:
Comments like that don't make me run out of commons, but they do get an eye roll from me at the very least. I don't see why that kind of comment is necessary.
The images or comments are not what keep me from participating in commons, it's not having a clear sense of whether or not comments like that are the norm on commons or considered acceptable, as well as not knowing the best way to respond. I spend most of my time on a smaller wiki, where I have a better sense of what the rules are and who to contact within that community for advice on how to handle that kind of thing. Since I don't have as good a sense of the issues on Commons, I usually don't comment.
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Béria Lima <beria.lima@wikimedia.pt mailto:beria.lima@wikimedia.pt> wrote:
Sarah Speak for yourself. I'm also a woman and i don't see that "you're not welcome" in his comment, and also can't see why that particular comment would in some way made girls run out commons. _____ /Béria Lima/ Wikimedia Portugal <http://wikimedia.pt> (351) 963 953 042 /Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer./ 2011/5/23 Sarah <slimvirgin@gmail.com <mailto:slimvirgin@gmail.com>> On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 16:32, Bob Sponge <metzgerhandwerk.hat.tradition@googlemail.com <mailto:metzgerhandwerk.hat.tradition@googlemail.com>> wrote: > dear sarah > > i want to give you a small feedback about your entries here about a > comment i did. (i found this list with a notice on my userpage in the > german wikipedia) > > "Pro i like her big tits :-) Bunnyfrosch (Diskussion) 22:59, 2 January > 2011 (UTC)" > > there were 2 contra votes before, one argued not educational and > questioned: "Why manga woman rhymes with big tits?" the other replies > the "not educational" accusation. both arguments are bullshit in my > opinion. because all is educational or nothing, but i am to obliging > to told a another users his/her meaning is bullshit. for example if i > want to know how a piece of shit looks like, a picture of a piece of > shit ist educational, and if i want to know something about the > frontieres of texas, a picture of a map coult very > helpfully/educational. if people naming something not educational, > they want to say somthing diffrent. ( note this is my personal pov!) > but they vote this way, but really really often simply mean: "i hate > this pic" or "i hate this user" or "i hate every kind of nudity in the > commons" > > in german i often give persons a longer feedback, in english i spare > the longer feedback. (you can read why^^) so i choose a short pro > vote, applying to the first contra. and by the way, i am not addicted > to big or small boobs - i couldn't care less! > if i had choose a longer explanation for my vote, it would like: > "wikipedia needs well draught anime pictures, with common licences, > this one is a great animation of a girl or transsexual in a beautyfull > landscape". so, thats the reason i vote with pro. > > but there was no need for a argumentaion, when the contra-side argues > with "not educational" > > i hope this will help you, to understand my diction in the comment. > > best regards > le frog du rabbit > Bob, thanks for your explanation. It's appreciated. The thing is this: some of us would like to attract more women editors to Wikipedia, so that women have more of a voice, and perhaps also to change the culture of Wikipedia a little. It's arguably not in a woman's interests to hang around on a talk page where people are posting about big tits. It may be in the project's interests to have more women there, but it's hard to see how it could be in the interests of the individual women. It doesn't really matter what the intention is behind the words, because all we see are the words themselves. For some women (not all, but some), these words effectively mean, "The way you see the world is not represented here," or "Go away." That's one of the reasons it's a problem. Sarah _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap-- "Only the shallow know themselves." - Oscar Wilde
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
If you start the censure in Commons, Ryan, your cause will be in Adm noticeboard "on sight" _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
2011/5/26 Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org
Those types of comments are a lot worse than unnecessary. They create a sexualized environment that is exclusionary to anyone who isn't a heterosexual male. If this doesn't make sense to you, please read through http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment
These types of comments should be removed on sight. If you see them, please delete them or email me. Thanks.
Ryan Kaldari
On 5/23/11 11:48 AM, Nicole Willson wrote:
Comments like that don't make me run out of commons, but they do get an eye roll from me at the very least. I don't see why that kind of comment is necessary.
The images or comments are not what keep me from participating in commons, it's not having a clear sense of whether or not comments like that are the norm on commons or considered acceptable, as well as not knowing the best way to respond. I spend most of my time on a smaller wiki, where I have a better sense of what the rules are and who to contact within that community for advice on how to handle that kind of thing. Since I don't have as good a sense of the issues on Commons, I usually don't comment.
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
Sarah
Speak for yourself. I'm also a woman and i don't see that "you're not welcome" in his comment, and also can't see why that particular comment would in some way made girls run out commons. _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
2011/5/23 Sarah slimvirgin@gmail.com
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 16:32, Bob Sponge metzgerhandwerk.hat.tradition@googlemail.com wrote:
dear sarah
i want to give you a small feedback about your entries here about a comment i did. (i found this list with a notice on my userpage in the german wikipedia)
"Pro i like her big tits :-) Bunnyfrosch (Diskussion) 22:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)"
there were 2 contra votes before, one argued not educational and questioned: "Why manga woman rhymes with big tits?" the other replies the "not educational" accusation. both arguments are bullshit in my opinion. because all is educational or nothing, but i am to obliging to told a another users his/her meaning is bullshit. for example if i want to know how a piece of shit looks like, a picture of a piece of shit ist educational, and if i want to know something about the frontieres of texas, a picture of a map coult very helpfully/educational. if people naming something not educational, they want to say somthing diffrent. ( note this is my personal pov!) but they vote this way, but really really often simply mean: "i hate this pic" or "i hate this user" or "i hate every kind of nudity in the commons"
in german i often give persons a longer feedback, in english i spare the longer feedback. (you can read why^^) so i choose a short pro vote, applying to the first contra. and by the way, i am not addicted to big or small boobs - i couldn't care less! if i had choose a longer explanation for my vote, it would like: "wikipedia needs well draught anime pictures, with common licences, this one is a great animation of a girl or transsexual in a beautyfull landscape". so, thats the reason i vote with pro.
but there was no need for a argumentaion, when the contra-side argues with "not educational"
i hope this will help you, to understand my diction in the comment.
best regards le frog du rabbit
Bob, thanks for your explanation. It's appreciated.
The thing is this: some of us would like to attract more women editors to Wikipedia, so that women have more of a voice, and perhaps also to change the culture of Wikipedia a little.
It's arguably not in a woman's interests to hang around on a talk page where people are posting about big tits. It may be in the project's interests to have more women there, but it's hard to see how it could be in the interests of the individual women.
It doesn't really matter what the intention is behind the words, because all we see are the words themselves. For some women (not all, but some), these words effectively mean, "The way you see the world is not represented here," or "Go away."
That's one of the reasons it's a problem.
Sarah
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- "Only the shallow know themselves." - Oscar Wilde
Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
2011/5/26 Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org
Those types of comments are a lot worse than unnecessary. They create a sexualized environment that is exclusionary to anyone who isn't a heterosexual male. If this doesn't make sense to you, please read through http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment
These types of comments should be removed on sight. If you see them, please delete them or email me. Thanks.
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:34, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
If you start the censure in Commons, Ryan, your cause will be in Adm noticeboard "on sight" _____ Béria Lima Wikimedia Portugal (351) 963 953 042
Béria, you've rightly asked that people not generalize their responses, where they assume everyone feels as they do. But the same applies to you. You're not offended by these comments. You would see their removal as censorship. Others disagree, and their arguments are valid too.
It would be interesting if we could try to find common ground.
I agree with you that it's important not to be over-sensitive. But a big problem is that women have been taught for hundreds of years that they're just over-reacting when they say they see discrimination.
So the question is: how do we create an environment that's welcoming for as many groups as possible -- including groups who are sensitive to perceived discrimination, and groups who are sensitive to perceived censorship?
Sarah
*So the question is: how do we create an environment that's welcoming for as many groups as possible -- including groups who are sensitive to perceived discrimination, and groups who are sensitive to perceived censorship?
I imagined that is the propose of that list, Sara. _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
2011/5/26 Sarah slimvirgin@gmail.com
2011/5/26 Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org
Those types of comments are a lot worse than unnecessary. They create a sexualized environment that is exclusionary to anyone who isn't a heterosexual male. If this doesn't make sense to you, please read
through
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment
These types of comments should be removed on sight. If you see them, please delete them or email me. Thanks.
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:34, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
If you start the censure in Commons, Ryan, your cause will be in Adm noticeboard "on sight" _____ Béria Lima Wikimedia Portugal (351) 963 953 042
Béria, you've rightly asked that people not generalize their responses, where they assume everyone feels as they do. But the same applies to you. You're not offended by these comments. You would see their removal as censorship. Others disagree, and their arguments are valid too.
It would be interesting if we could try to find common ground.
I agree with you that it's important not to be over-sensitive. But a big problem is that women have been taught for hundreds of years that they're just over-reacting when they say they see discrimination.
So the question is: how do we create an environment that's welcoming for as many groups as possible -- including groups who are sensitive to perceived discrimination, and groups who are sensitive to perceived censorship?
Sarah
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Racist, homophobic and anti-semitic comments are certainly criticized and people ask for their removal. A pattern of such comments could get one banned. The same should be true for obviously sexist comments. In fact, it's here See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil#Identifying_incivility - after a long debate with some editors strongly opposed to adding such sexist comments.
* (b) personal attacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks, including racial, ethnic, sexual, gender-related and religious slurs, and derogatory references to groups such as social classes or nationalities;
On 5/26/2011 2:53 PM, Sarah wrote:
2011/5/26 Ryan Kaldarirkaldari@wikimedia.org
Those types of comments are a lot worse than unnecessary. They create a sexualized environment that is exclusionary to anyone who isn't a heterosexual male. If this doesn't make sense to you, please read through http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment
These types of comments should be removed on sight. If you see them, please delete them or email me. Thanks.
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:34, Béria Limaberia.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
If you start the censure in Commons, Ryan, your cause will be in Adm noticeboard "on sight" _____ Béria Lima Wikimedia Portugal (351) 963 953 042
Béria, you've rightly asked that people not generalize their responses, where they assume everyone feels as they do. But the same applies to you. You're not offended by these comments. You would see their removal as censorship. Others disagree, and their arguments are valid too.
It would be interesting if we could try to find common ground.
I agree with you that it's important not to be over-sensitive. But a big problem is that women have been taught for hundreds of years that they're just over-reacting when they say they see discrimination.
So the question is: how do we create an environment that's welcoming for as many groups as possible -- including groups who are sensitive to perceived discrimination, and groups who are sensitive to perceived censorship?
Sarah
_
carol,
en.wiki aproved that, Commons didn't. You can't use a rule from one wiki in another. IF - and that is a BIG if, if commons community approve such kind of rules, you people can remove all comments you can find....
Until there, is censure, and you people will not do it while i'm there to watch commons RC. _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
2011/5/27 carolmooredc@verizon.net
Racist, homophobic and anti-semitic comments are certainly criticized and people ask for their removal. A pattern of such comments could get one banned. The same should be true for obviously sexist comments. In fact, it's here See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil#Identifying_incivility - after a long debate with some editors strongly opposed to adding such sexist comments.
- (b) personal attackshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks,
including racial, ethnic, sexual, gender-related and religious slurs, and derogatory references to groups such as social classes or nationalities;
On 5/26/2011 2:53 PM, Sarah wrote:
2011/5/26 Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org rkaldari@wikimedia.org
Those types of comments are a lot worse than unnecessary. They create a sexualized environment that is exclusionary to anyone who isn't a heterosexual male. If this doesn't make sense to you, please read throughhttp://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment
These types of comments should be removed on sight. If you see them, please delete them or email me. Thanks.
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:34, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
If you start the censure in Commons, Ryan, your cause will be in Adm noticeboard "on sight" _____ Béria Lima Wikimedia Portugal (351) 963 953 042
Béria, you've rightly asked that people not generalize their responses, where they assume everyone feels as they do. But the same applies to you. You're not offended by these comments. You would see their removal as censorship. Others disagree, and their arguments are valid too.
It would be interesting if we could try to find common ground.
I agree with you that it's important not to be over-sensitive. But a big problem is that women have been taught for hundreds of years that they're just over-reacting when they say they see discrimination.
So the question is: how do we create an environment that's welcoming for as many groups as possible -- including groups who are sensitive to perceived discrimination, and groups who are sensitive to perceived censorship?
Sarah
_
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I'm sure all the persecuted fans of "big tits" will appreciate your efforts.
Ryan Kaldari
On 5/26/11 5:01 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
carol,
en.wiki aproved that, Commons didn't. You can't use a rule from one wiki in another. IF - and that is a BIG if, if commons community approve such kind of rules, you people can remove all comments you can find....
Until there, is censure, and you people will not do it while i'm there to watch commons RC. _____ /Béria Lima/ Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
/Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer./
2011/5/27 <carolmooredc@verizon.net mailto:carolmooredc@verizon.net>
Racist, homophobic and anti-semitic comments are certainly criticized and people ask for their removal. A pattern of such comments could get one banned. The same should be true for obviously sexist comments. In fact, it's here See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil#Identifying_incivility - after a long debate with some editors strongly opposed to adding such sexist comments. * (b) personal attacks <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks>, including racial, ethnic, sexual, gender-related and religious slurs, and derogatory references to groups such as social classes or nationalities; On 5/26/2011 2:53 PM, Sarah wrote:2011/5/26 Ryan Kaldari<rkaldari@wikimedia.org> <mailto:rkaldari@wikimedia.org>Those types of comments are a lot worse than unnecessary. They create a sexualized environment that is exclusionary to anyone who isn't a heterosexual male. If this doesn't make sense to you, please read through http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment These types of comments should be removed on sight. If you see them, please delete them or email me. Thanks.On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:34, Béria Lima<beria.lima@wikimedia.pt> <mailto:beria.lima@wikimedia.pt> wrote:If you start the censure in Commons, Ryan, your cause will be in Adm noticeboard "on sight" _____ Béria Lima Wikimedia Portugal (351) 963 953 042Béria, you've rightly asked that people not generalize their responses, where they assume everyone feels as they do. But the same applies to you. You're not offended by these comments. You would see their removal as censorship. Others disagree, and their arguments are valid too. It would be interesting if we could try to find common ground. I agree with you that it's important not to be over-sensitive. But a big problem is that women have been taught for hundreds of years that they're just over-reacting when they say they see discrimination. So the question is: how do we create an environment that's welcoming for as many groups as possible -- including groups who are sensitive to perceived discrimination, and groups who are sensitive to perceived censorship? Sarah ________________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Guess we need lots more people on Commons, too, who do not tolerate bigotry towards women....
On 5/26/2011 8:01 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
carol,
en.wiki aproved that, Commons didn't. You can't use a rule from one wiki in another. IF - and that is a BIG if, if commons community approve such kind of rules, you people can remove all comments you can find....
Until there, is censure, and you people will not do it while i'm there to watch commons RC. _____ /Béria Lima/ Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
/Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer./
2011/5/27 <carolmooredc@verizon.net mailto:carolmooredc@verizon.net>
Racist, homophobic and anti-semitic comments are certainly criticized and people ask for their removal. A pattern of such comments could get one banned. The same should be true for obviously sexist comments. In fact, it's here See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil#Identifying_incivility - after a long debate with some editors strongly opposed to adding such sexist comments. * (b) personal attacks <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks>, including racial, ethnic, sexual, gender-related and religious slurs, and derogatory references to groups such as social classes or nationalities; On 5/26/2011 2:53 PM, Sarah wrote:2011/5/26 Ryan Kaldari<rkaldari@wikimedia.org> <mailto:rkaldari@wikimedia.org>Those types of comments are a lot worse than unnecessary. They create a sexualized environment that is exclusionary to anyone who isn't a heterosexual male. If this doesn't make sense to you, please read through http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment These types of comments should be removed on sight. If you see them, please delete them or email me. Thanks.On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:34, Béria Lima<beria.lima@wikimedia.pt> <mailto:beria.lima@wikimedia.pt> wrote:If you start the censure in Commons, Ryan, your cause will be in Adm noticeboard "on sight" _____ Béria Lima Wikimedia Portugal (351) 963 953 042Béria, you've rightly asked that people not generalize their responses, where they assume everyone feels as they do. But the same applies to you. You're not offended by these comments. You would see their removal as censorship. Others disagree, and their arguments are valid too. It would be interesting if we could try to find common ground. I agree with you that it's important not to be over-sensitive. But a big problem is that women have been taught for hundreds of years that they're just over-reacting when they say they see discrimination. So the question is: how do we create an environment that's welcoming for as many groups as possible -- including groups who are sensitive to perceived discrimination, and groups who are sensitive to perceived censorship? Sarah ________________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3662 - Release Date: 05/26/11
It is on the English Wikipedia that an attempt was made to draw firm lines regarding civility; though it has partially failed.
Our efforts were even mentioned in The New York Times, although, when I searched I found this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/09/technology/09blog.html
Which is interesting in its own right.
This was the one I was looking for:
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/weekinreview/29cohen.html
Fred
Guess we need lots more people on Commons, too, who do not tolerate bigotry towards women....
On 5/26/2011 8:01 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
carol,
en.wiki aproved that, Commons didn't. You can't use a rule from one wiki in another. IF - and that is a BIG if, if commons community approve such kind of rules, you people can remove all comments you can find....
Until there, is censure, and you people will not do it while i'm there to watch commons RC. _____ /Béria Lima/ Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt
That's fine with me. If someone feels that objectifying women is kosher on Commons, I'll be happy to discuss it with them on the Administrator's noticeboard.
Ryan Kaldari
On 5/26/11 11:34 AM, Béria Lima wrote:
If you start the censure in Commons, Ryan, your cause will be in Adm noticeboard "on sight" _____ /Béria Lima/ Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
/Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer./
2011/5/26 Ryan Kaldari <rkaldari@wikimedia.org mailto:rkaldari@wikimedia.org>
Those types of comments are a lot worse than unnecessary. They create a sexualized environment that is exclusionary to anyone who isn't a heterosexual male. If this doesn't make sense to you, please read through http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment These types of comments should be removed on sight. If you see them, please delete them or email me. Thanks. Ryan Kaldari On 5/23/11 11:48 AM, Nicole Willson wrote:Comments like that don't make me run out of commons, but they do get an eye roll from me at the very least. I don't see why that kind of comment is necessary. The images or comments are not what keep me from participating in commons, it's not having a clear sense of whether or not comments like that are the norm on commons or considered acceptable, as well as not knowing the best way to respond. I spend most of my time on a smaller wiki, where I have a better sense of what the rules are and who to contact within that community for advice on how to handle that kind of thing. Since I don't have as good a sense of the issues on Commons, I usually don't comment. On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Béria Lima <beria.lima@wikimedia.pt <mailto:beria.lima@wikimedia.pt>> wrote: Sarah Speak for yourself. I'm also a woman and i don't see that "you're not welcome" in his comment, and also can't see why that particular comment would in some way made girls run out commons. _____ /Béria Lima/ Wikimedia Portugal <http://wikimedia.pt> (351) 963 953 042 /Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer./ 2011/5/23 Sarah <slimvirgin@gmail.com <mailto:slimvirgin@gmail.com>> On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 16:32, Bob Sponge <metzgerhandwerk.hat.tradition@googlemail.com <mailto:metzgerhandwerk.hat.tradition@googlemail.com>> wrote: > dear sarah > > i want to give you a small feedback about your entries here about a > comment i did. (i found this list with a notice on my userpage in the > german wikipedia) > > "Pro i like her big tits :-) Bunnyfrosch (Diskussion) 22:59, 2 January > 2011 (UTC)" > > there were 2 contra votes before, one argued not educational and > questioned: "Why manga woman rhymes with big tits?" the other replies > the "not educational" accusation. both arguments are bullshit in my > opinion. because all is educational or nothing, but i am to obliging > to told a another users his/her meaning is bullshit. for example if i > want to know how a piece of shit looks like, a picture of a piece of > shit ist educational, and if i want to know something about the > frontieres of texas, a picture of a map coult very > helpfully/educational. if people naming something not educational, > they want to say somthing diffrent. ( note this is my personal pov!) > but they vote this way, but really really often simply mean: "i hate > this pic" or "i hate this user" or "i hate every kind of nudity in the > commons" > > in german i often give persons a longer feedback, in english i spare > the longer feedback. (you can read why^^) so i choose a short pro > vote, applying to the first contra. and by the way, i am not addicted > to big or small boobs - i couldn't care less! > if i had choose a longer explanation for my vote, it would like: > "wikipedia needs well draught anime pictures, with common licences, > this one is a great animation of a girl or transsexual in a beautyfull > landscape". so, thats the reason i vote with pro. > > but there was no need for a argumentaion, when the contra-side argues > with "not educational" > > i hope this will help you, to understand my diction in the comment. > > best regards > le frog du rabbit > Bob, thanks for your explanation. It's appreciated. The thing is this: some of us would like to attract more women editors to Wikipedia, so that women have more of a voice, and perhaps also to change the culture of Wikipedia a little. It's arguably not in a woman's interests to hang around on a talk page where people are posting about big tits. It may be in the project's interests to have more women there, but it's hard to see how it could be in the interests of the individual women. It doesn't really matter what the intention is behind the words, because all we see are the words themselves. For some women (not all, but some), these words effectively mean, "The way you see the world is not represented here," or "Go away." That's one of the reasons it's a problem. Sarah _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- "Only the shallow know themselves." - Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap