Hi folks,
While a discussion was taking place on this list about gender neutrality and language, Victor (User:victorgrigas) and I were having a conversation about it via email. Victor decided to create a page about "what language is Wikipedia?"
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_Gender_Is_Wikipedia
Hopefully you will contribute to your own and other languages.
Interesting mention about Russian Wikipedia, it states that they refer to Wikipedia as a female, similar to how in English we refer to ships as women.
Aweee...even Klingon is featured }:) (How sentimental!)
-Sarah
Hi everybody,
I would like to refer us to an article on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender . An extract from the link as follows: "The linguistic notion of grammatical gender is distinguished from the biological and social notion of natural gender, although they interact closely in many languages."
When we speak of 'gender neutrality' in language we refer to changing the masculine word used, i.e. 'he shall', not for a female word 'she shall', but as far as practicable to neutralise the wording, i.e. 'they shall' or change the syntax entirely in order to avoid the use of using the male or female sex; 'pronouns' in this example. Women don't really want to read a manual where the instruction or information is described throughout as 'he'. We opt for non-gender specific language in lieu of this.
It is usually the creators of the dictionary of a country that nominate the grammatical gender of a word. In France for instance they have the French Academy, called 'académie française'. Wikipedia's grammatical gender will be decided by the grammar used in a given country and it is far from objective; but it is grammatical gender, not a description of male and female/man and woman biological gender. In France the French Academy have traditionally been the institution that assign the gender to a noun. It would be interesting to compare, not so much across countries, but within countries to examine the grammatical gender allocated to various words, because in many instances is has no relationship to male or female, and it's quite a mystery how the nouns are allocated a specific gender, and excuse this aside but I used to think on this and wonder why all the strong, positive, and creative words seemed to be assigned the grammatical masculine gender. As the extract above says, "The linguistic notion of grammatical gender is distinguished from the biological and social notion of natural gender...'., so we don't speak of grammatically gendered words as being female or feminine in the biological sense; words are classified, grammatically, into at least three categories, feminine, masculine, neuter. They don't refer to men and women, as does the notion 'non-gender specific language' which does address the biological usage of female and male words in sentences. And there is a large body of work in all disciplines that have traditionally referred to 'he' when they mean 'he' and 'she'. It is only in recent decades that this error is being addressed.
Thank you, Anne Frazer WMAU
----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah Stierch To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects Cc: Victor Grigas Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 1:14 PM Subject: [Gendergap] What Gender is Wikipedia?
Hi folks,
While a discussion was taking place on this list about gender neutrality and language, Victor (User:victorgrigas) and I were having a conversation about it via email. Victor decided to create a page about "what language is Wikipedia?"
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_Gender_Is_Wikipedia
Hopefully you will contribute to your own and other languages.
Interesting mention about Russian Wikipedia, it states that they refer to Wikipedia as a female, similar to how in English we refer to ships as women.
Aweee...even Klingon is featured }:) (How sentimental!)
-Sarah
-- Sarah Stierch Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today<<
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On 12/30/11 3:58 AM, Ms. Anne Frazer wrote:
...it's quite a mystery how the nouns are allocated a specific gender, and excuse this aside but I used to think on this and wonder why all the strong, positive, and creative words seemed to be assigned the grammatical masculine gender.
I'll let my favorite satirist Valerie Solanas answer this one: "Being an incomplete female, the male spends his life attempting to complete himself, to become female. He attempts to do this by constantly seeking out, fraternizing with and trying to live through and fuse with the female, and by claiming as his own all female characteristics—emotional strength and independence, forcefulness, dynamism, decisiveness, coolness, objectivity, vitality, intensity, depth of character, grooviness, etc.—and projecting onto women all male traits—vanity, frivolity, triviality, weakness, etc."
Ryan Kaldari
Having been distracted by all things to do with the summer holidays - Christmas cooking, long-distance driving, the beach, the Test cricket - I am behind with all things WP, but would like to add, belatedly, that I for one appreciate the way Sarah finds articles that need attention. It is educative (one of the reasons I am here), interesting and useful (sometimes I can help fix them).
Also would like to thank Anne for documenting so well the distinction between linguistic and biological/social gender. I am not a sociologist, but I suspect that efforts to draw social conclusions about contemporary biological/social gender relations based on data gleaned from linguistic conventions would be about as pointless, even if it was as appealing, as earlier efforts by phrenologists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenologyto determine personality types from head bumps.
Whiteghost.ink
On 31 December 2011 05:15, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 12/30/11 3:58 AM, Ms. Anne Frazer wrote:
...it's quite a mystery how the nouns are allocated a specific gender, and excuse this aside but I used to think on this and wonder why all the strong, positive, and creative words seemed to be assigned the grammatical masculine gender.
I'll let my favorite satirist Valerie Solanas answer this one: "Being an incomplete female, the male spends his life attempting to complete himself, to become female. He attempts to do this by constantly seeking out, fraternizing with and trying to live through and fuse with the female, and by claiming as his own all female characteristics—emotional strength and independence, forcefulness, dynamism, decisiveness, coolness, objectivity, vitality, intensity, depth of character, grooviness, etc.—and projecting onto women all male traits—vanity, frivolity, triviality, weakness, etc."
Ryan Kaldari
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Am 30.12.2011 03:13 schrieb "Sarah Stierch" sarah.stierch@gmail.com:
Hi folks,
While a discussion was taking place on this list about gender neutrality
and language, Victor (User:victorgrigas) and I were having a conversation about it via email. Victor decided to create a page about "what language is Wikipedia?"
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_Gender_Is_Wikipedia
Hopefully you will contribute to your own and other languages.
Interesting mention about Russian Wikipedia, it states that they refer to
Wikipedia as a female,
Sure. Same in German. In Slavic languages, most nouns ending in -a or -ya are female, in German, it is somewhat similar. There is absolutely nothing special about this. In Ukrainian, even the word for 'human' is female: liudyna. But I doubt that this says much about culture or society..
Johannes
similar to how in English we refer to ships as women.
Aweee...even Klingon is featured }:) (How sentimental!)
-Sarah
-- Sarah Stierch Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today<<
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
"but I used to think on this and wonder why all the strong, positive, and creative words seemed to be assigned the grammatical masculine gender"
Words that are grammical feminine in French : strength (la force), creativity (la créativité), freedom/liberty (la liberté), equality (l'égalité), life (la vie), death (la mort), knowledge (la mort), improvement (l'amélioration)... I don't know where your affirmation comes from.
Caroline
2011/12/30 Johannes Rohr johannes.rohr@wikimedia.de
Am 30.12.2011 03:13 schrieb "Sarah Stierch" sarah.stierch@gmail.com:
Hi folks,
While a discussion was taking place on this list about gender neutrality
and language, Victor (User:victorgrigas) and I were having a conversation about it via email. Victor decided to create a page about "what language is Wikipedia?"
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_Gender_Is_Wikipedia
Hopefully you will contribute to your own and other languages.
Interesting mention about Russian Wikipedia, it states that they refer
to Wikipedia as a female,
Sure. Same in German. In Slavic languages, most nouns ending in -a or -ya are female, in German, it is somewhat similar. There is absolutely nothing special about this. In Ukrainian, even the word for 'human' is female: liudyna. But I doubt that this says much about culture or society..
Johannes
similar to how in English we refer to ships as women.
Aweee...even Klingon is featured }:) (How sentimental!)
-Sarah
-- Sarah Stierch Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today<<
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap