tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)
This deletion was filled with personal remarks and innouendo. It was discouraging of the posting bny any women. I'm angry and frustrated to have been singled out. Is that treatment to be expected? Thank you --
Migdia Chinea
I looked at the discussion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Stre...)) and didn't see personal remarks or innuendo. Can you point me to them?
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Migdia Chinea migdia.chinea@gmail.com wrote:
tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)
This deletion was filled with personal remarks and innouendo. It was discouraging of the posting bny any women. I'm angry and frustrated to have been singled out. Is that treatment to be expected? Thank you --
Migdia Chinea
-- Migdia & Cicero & Ulla & Tullia-Zoe & Clodia & Aurelius & Cato the Younger
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
I looked at the discussion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Stre...)) and didn't see personal remarks or innuendo. Can you point me to them?
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Migdia Chinea migdia.chinea@gmail.com wrote:
tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)
This deletion was filled with personal remarks and innouendo. It was discouraging of the posting bny any women. I'm angry and frustrated to have been singled out. Is that treatment to be expected? Thank you --
Migdia Chinea
-- Migdia & Cicero & Ulla & Tullia-Zoe & Clodia & Aurelius & Cato the Younger
Migdia Chinea's only purpose on Wikipedia has been to promote herself (whom she deems to be notable as an up-and-coming filmmaker) and her film (ditto). She considers any challenge to her self-promotion to constitute an assault on herself as a human being and creative worker, and refuses to heed any of the advice given her. This is not a gender issue in any way; I ran into similar problems with the male comix artist Colin Upton, who left Wikipedia after not liking the way other people treated the article about him.
Michael, I think that response is overly harsh, even if it is true that Migdia's contributions were not appropriate for the encyclopedia. While there are certainly spammers who act in bad faith, often what Wikipedians see as self-promotion is not seen or intended that way by those who contribute it. In particular, when we are talking about biographical material and issues of notability, it is very easy for the issue to become personalized, and for the subject to feel like they are being persecuted on a personal level (being accused of "vanity," called not "notable"). I am not certain why Migdia says that the comments were gender-related, but the feeling of having been singled out and insulted is a common one for those who have had to go through the deletion process, and we hear it a lot.
It is important to remember that Wikipedia's definition of terms like "notability" is jargon and confusing. To a normal person, being notable means you've done something important; to a Wikipedian, it means reporters or academics have written about you. In fact, it is quite possible to debate the merits of an article without accusing anyone of self-promotion, even if you believe it's true. The self-promotion issue is beside the point: in general, we delete articles if they fail our criteria for inclusion and we keep them if they meet them (self-authored or not).
Dominic
On 10/18/11 2:10 PM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Nathannawrich@gmail.com wrote:
I looked at the discussion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Stre...)) and didn't see personal remarks or innuendo. Can you point me to them?
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Migdia Chineamigdia.chinea@gmail.com wrote:
tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)
This deletion was filled with personal remarks and innouendo. It was discouraging of the posting bny any women. I'm angry and frustrated to have been singled out. Is that treatment to be expected? Thank you --
Migdia Chinea
-- Migdia& Cicero& Ulla& Tullia-Zoe& Clodia& Aurelius& Cato the Younger
Migdia Chinea's only purpose on Wikipedia has been to promote herself (whom she deems to be notable as an up-and-coming filmmaker) and her film (ditto). She considers any challenge to her self-promotion to constitute an assault on herself as a human being and creative worker, and refuses to heed any of the advice given her. This is not a gender issue in any way; I ran into similar problems with the male comix artist Colin Upton, who left Wikipedia after not liking the way other people treated the article about him.
Hi
Contrary to Dominic's response, which is beautifully-written as always, I believe Ms. Chinea would like to take a look at the Conflict of Interest guidelines located here [1]. The Conflict of Interest Noticeboard has her issue currently listed [2]. The userpage and the article about Ms. Chinea both mention her name and her biography in third person. It is strongly discouraged for editors to write about themselves or things close to them. It is usually advisable for someone neutral to write an article about someone so they can remain objective.
The tone on the deletion request as others have pointed doesn't seem personal to me. The Conflict of Interest noticeboard also doesn't seem very personal, but I would differ to others. Mig, I hope you can understand that editors are volunteers who are just trying to follow policy.
Regards Theo
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:COI [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#Anon...
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Dominic dmcdevit@cox.net wrote:
Michael, I think that response is overly harsh, even if it is true that Migdia's contributions were not appropriate for the encyclopedia. While there are certainly spammers who act in bad faith, often what Wikipedians see as self-promotion is not seen or intended that way by those who contribute it. In particular, when we are talking about biographical material and issues of notability, it is very easy for the issue to become personalized, and for the subject to feel like they are being persecuted on a personal level (being accused of "vanity," called not "notable"). I am not certain why Migdia says that the comments were gender-related, but the feeling of having been singled out and insulted is a common one for those who have had to go through the deletion process, and we hear it a lot.
It is important to remember that Wikipedia's definition of terms like "notability" is jargon and confusing. To a normal person, being notable means you've done something important; to a Wikipedian, it means reporters or academics have written about you. In fact, it is quite possible to debate the merits of an article without accusing anyone of self-promotion, even if you believe it's true. The self-promotion issue is beside the point: in general, we delete articles if they fail our criteria for inclusion and we keep them if they meet them (self-authored or not).
Dominic
On 10/18/11 2:10 PM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Nathannawrich@gmail.com wrote:
I looked at the discussion (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Stre...) )
and didn't see personal remarks or innuendo. Can you point me to them?
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Migdia Chineamigdia.chinea@gmail.com
wrote:
tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)
This deletion was filled with personal remarks and innouendo. It was discouraging of the posting bny any women. I'm angry and frustrated to
have
been singled out. Is that treatment to be expected? Thank you --
Migdia Chinea
-- Migdia& Cicero& Ulla& Tullia-Zoe& Clodia& Aurelius& Cato the
Younger
Migdia Chinea's only purpose on Wikipedia has been to promote herself (whom she deems to be notable as an up-and-coming filmmaker) and her film (ditto). She considers any challenge to her self-promotion to constitute an assault on herself as a human being and creative worker, and refuses to heed any of the advice given her. This is not a gender issue in any way; I ran into similar problems with the male comix artist Colin Upton, who left Wikipedia after not liking the way other people treated the article about him.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap