https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Wikipedia_Day_2015
Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 is a celebration and mini-conference for the project's 14th birthday,* to be held on Sunday March 22, 2015, hosted at Barnard College starting at 10:00 am, and also supported by Wikimedia New York City and fellow Free Culture Alliance NYC partners.
There are various events, sessions, talks, etc. Nothing women oriented but I do see involvement by a new NYC meetup group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/AfroCrowd"
Talk page hasn't even been opened yet to comment on its goal: "to increase the number of people of African Descent who actively partake in the Wikimedia and free knowledge, culture and software movements." I guess meetups targeted on certain groups are less controversial than task forces.
That's interesting:
"The workshops are open to all Afrodescendants including but not limited to individuals who self-identify as African, African-American, Afro-Latino, Biracial, Black, Black-American, Caribbean, Garifuna, Haitian or West Indian."
I've never seen editithons that exclude people before. I've been to a couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course there was a very high proportion of African descent. Likewise, the women's editing events I have attended have been very welcoming to men, although as you would expect, there is a very high attendance level for women.
On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Carol Moore dc carolmooredc@verizon.net wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Wikipedia_Day_2015
Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 is a celebration and mini-conference for the project's 14th birthday,* to be held on Sunday March 22, 2015, hosted at Barnard College starting at 10:00 am, and also supported by Wikimedia New York City and fellow Free Culture Alliance NYC partners.
There are various events, sessions, talks, etc. Nothing women oriented but I do see involvement by a new NYC meetup group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/AfroCrowd"
Talk page hasn't even been opened yet to comment on its goal: "to increase the number of people of African Descent who actively partake in the Wikimedia and free knowledge, culture and software movements." I guess meetups targeted on certain groups are less controversial than task forces.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I recognize at least some of the names on the attendance list there as people who don't, to the best of my knowledge, identify as being of African descent, so it doesn't appear to have been an event that excluded anyone. My guess would be that the "open to" bit is intended to bring in people who might otherwise feel they're not welcome if they're not specifically invited, more than it's intended to dis-invite people who already know they're always welcome at Wikimedia events. The phrasing might be a bit awkward, but most ways I can think of to express "...and seriously, we would very much like those of African descent to fully participate at and feel comfortable in this workshop" suffer from one tonal weakness or another. At the end of the day, I can't say I resent specifically inviting racial minorities to events any more than I would resent specifically inviting women to events; given our demographics, it's probably better to err on the side of not making minorities feel marginalized or like they're being treated like tokens, than it is to err on the side of making sure white males don't feel like there might be a space where they're not the center of things.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Neotarf neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
That's interesting:
"The workshops are open to all Afrodescendants including but not limited to individuals who self-identify as African, African-American, Afro-Latino, Biracial, Black, Black-American, Caribbean, Garifuna, Haitian or West Indian."
I've never seen editithons that exclude people before. I've been to a couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course there was a very high proportion of African descent. Likewise, the women's editing events I have attended have been very welcoming to men, although as you would expect, there is a very high attendance level for women.
On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Carol Moore dc <carolmooredc@verizon.net
wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Wikipedia_Day_2015
Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 is a celebration and mini-conference for the project's 14th birthday,* to be held on Sunday March 22, 2015, hosted at Barnard College starting at 10:00 am, and also supported by Wikimedia New York City and fellow Free Culture Alliance NYC partners.
There are various events, sessions, talks, etc. Nothing women oriented but I do see involvement by a new NYC meetup group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/AfroCrowd"
Talk page hasn't even been opened yet to comment on its goal: "to increase the number of people of African Descent who actively partake in the Wikimedia and free knowledge, culture and software movements." I guess meetups targeted on certain groups are less controversial than task forces.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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On Mar 23, 2015 11:41 AM, "Katherine Casey" fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
I recognize at least some of the names on the attendance list there as
people who don't, to the best of my knowledge, identify as being of African descent, so it doesn't appear to have been an event that excluded anyone.
I think that wording was referring to future events not yesterday's event.
See also http://www.afrocrowd.org/
-Jeremy
On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf" neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
I've never seen editithons that exclude people before. I've been to a
couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course there was a very high proportion of African descent.
I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.
I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be *focused* on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab
-Jeremy
Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these groups explicitly, and in particular to representing different cultural identities in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic communities.
Thanks, Pharos
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Jeremy Baron jeremy@tuxmachine.com wrote:
On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf" neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
I've never seen editithons that exclude people before. I've been to a
couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course there was a very high proportion of African descent.
I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.
I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be *focused* on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab
-Jeremy
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these groups explicitly, and in particular to representing >different cultural identities in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic communities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~ Stereolithic? Wiktionary gives “modular” as an antonym for “monlithic”, but only for the computing sense. Daniel Case
See also this article: "AfroCrowd: The Black Wikipedia For People of African Descent" http://kreyolicious.com/afrocrowd/17531/
One of the drawbacks of GLAM is that people are just making a few edits, and leaving, rather than becoming long-term editors. There may be chances for followup here that we are missing. Is the wiki-world ready for "WomanCrowd: The Women's Wikipedia for People Who Were Born Female"? Or maybe more realistically, ways for women in a particular cluster of professions to network with other women in their field, not to mention professional men who are supportive enough of women to come to one of these events (and who also might just happen to control access to career advancement).
I have to say, though, that I totally support the idea of a Haitian Creole-language Wikipedia. This language barrier was a huge problem a few years ago, when there was an increased number of Haitians entering the U.S. after the earthquake in Haiti. The problem is the same with other creoles--instruction is usually given in one of the prestige languages--in this case French--rather than the individual's native or local village language, which makes communication and learning extremely difficult.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these groups explicitly, and in particular to representing different cultural identities in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic communities.
Thanks, Pharos
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Jeremy Baron jeremy@tuxmachine.com wrote:
On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf" neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
I've never seen editithons that exclude people before. I've been to a
couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course there was a very high proportion of African descent.
I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.
I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be *focused* on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab
-Jeremy
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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I doubt I'd attend any event purporting to recruit women that nevertheless limited itself to "people who were born female"; that's very much a type of exclusion I'm uncomfortable with. In general, however, there's nothing stopping you or anyone else from arranging a women-centric (or even women-only) edit-a-thon, or from reaching out to women in a certain field (via linkedin, maybe?) to urge them to get editing. Those are both cool ideas, and I suspect you'd get a lot of support, both from the WMF and from the gendergap community in general, in setting such things up. NYC would be, I suspect, a particularly fertile ground for gendergap-specific meetups; there's enough of nearly every demographic around there to fill some seats for a moderately-sized edit-a-thon, and the WMNYC board appears willing to work with minority-focused groups..
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Neotarf neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
See also this article: "AfroCrowd: The Black Wikipedia For People of African Descent" http://kreyolicious.com/afrocrowd/17531/
One of the drawbacks of GLAM is that people are just making a few edits, and leaving, rather than becoming long-term editors. There may be chances for followup here that we are missing. Is the wiki-world ready for "WomanCrowd: The Women's Wikipedia for People Who Were Born Female"? Or maybe more realistically, ways for women in a particular cluster of professions to network with other women in their field, not to mention professional men who are supportive enough of women to come to one of these events (and who also might just happen to control access to career advancement).
I have to say, though, that I totally support the idea of a Haitian Creole-language Wikipedia. This language barrier was a huge problem a few years ago, when there was an increased number of Haitians entering the U.S. after the earthquake in Haiti. The problem is the same with other creoles--instruction is usually given in one of the prestige languages--in this case French--rather than the individual's native or local village language, which makes communication and learning extremely difficult.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these groups explicitly, and in particular to representing different cultural identities in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic communities.
Thanks, Pharos
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Jeremy Baron jeremy@tuxmachine.com wrote:
On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf" neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
I've never seen editithons that exclude people before. I've been to a
couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course there was a very high proportion of African descent.
I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.
I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be *focused* on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab
-Jeremy
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*"I doubt I'd attend any event purporting to recruit women that nevertheless limited itself to "people who were born female"; that's very much a type of exclusion I'm uncomfortable with. In general, however, there's nothing stopping you or anyone else from arranging a women-centric (or even women-only) edit-a-thon, or from reaching out to women in a certain field (via linkedin, maybe?) to urge them to get editing."* After what I've been through, I'm not likely to urge *anyone* to edit. My own opinion is that all Wikimedia spaces should be moving towards 50/50. But my point is, all of these people express an interest, come in for a day, sometimes in conjunction with a friend who is attending a similar event in another city, make their first edit, and then ...what? There's no signing up for a mailing list, no newsletter, no invitations to log into a safe space for continued collaborations, in short, nothing to show them that Wikipedia appreciates them or considers their contributions to be valuable. And nothing to show them the next step along the way. People are walking in the door. And then they walk out. Where is the infrastructure for making that second edit? And for staying connected with the people they meet?
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Katherine Casey < fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
I doubt I'd attend any event purporting to recruit women that nevertheless limited itself to "people who were born female"; that's very much a type of exclusion I'm uncomfortable with. In general, however, there's nothing stopping you or anyone else from arranging a women-centric (or even women-only) edit-a-thon, or from reaching out to women in a certain field (via linkedin, maybe?) to urge them to get editing. Those are both cool ideas, and I suspect you'd get a lot of support, both from the WMF and from the gendergap community in general, in setting such things up. NYC would be, I suspect, a particularly fertile ground for gendergap-specific meetups; there's enough of nearly every demographic around there to fill some seats for a moderately-sized edit-a-thon, and the WMNYC board appears willing to work with minority-focused groups..
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Neotarf neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
See also this article: "AfroCrowd: The Black Wikipedia For People of African Descent" http://kreyolicious.com/afrocrowd/17531/
One of the drawbacks of GLAM is that people are just making a few edits, and leaving, rather than becoming long-term editors. There may be chances for followup here that we are missing. Is the wiki-world ready for "WomanCrowd: The Women's Wikipedia for People Who Were Born Female"? Or maybe more realistically, ways for women in a particular cluster of professions to network with other women in their field, not to mention professional men who are supportive enough of women to come to one of these events (and who also might just happen to control access to career advancement).
I have to say, though, that I totally support the idea of a Haitian Creole-language Wikipedia. This language barrier was a huge problem a few years ago, when there was an increased number of Haitians entering the U.S. after the earthquake in Haiti. The problem is the same with other creoles--instruction is usually given in one of the prestige languages--in this case French--rather than the individual's native or local village language, which makes communication and learning extremely difficult.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these groups explicitly, and in particular to representing different cultural identities in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic communities.
Thanks, Pharos
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Jeremy Baron jeremy@tuxmachine.com wrote:
On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf" neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
I've never seen editithons that exclude people before. I've been to
a couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course there was a very high proportion of African descent.
I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.
I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be *focused* on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab
-Jeremy
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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If someone started "WomenCROWD" it would be interesting to see if the other "Crowd" meetups would support it. (AfroCROWD, HaitiCROWD, AfroLatinoCROWD, AfricaCROWD) Not that I think it's necessary, but it would be interesting to see the reaction. And I am curious as to what pushback they might have gotten and how they handled it. But being banned from the site, I'm reluctant to use the email function to ask involved individuals. Maybe I'll just ask politely via twitter? Others can too, if you are curious...
On 3/23/2015 11:25 AM, Neotarf wrote:
That's interesting:
"The workshops are open to all Afrodescendants including but not limited to individuals who self-identify as African, African-American, Afro-Latino, Biracial, Black, Black-American, Caribbean, Garifuna, Haitian or West Indian."
I've never seen editithons that exclude people before. I've been to a couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course there was a very high proportion of African descent. Likewise, the women's editing events I have attended have been very welcoming to men, although as you would expect, there is a very high attendance level for women.
On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Carol Moore dc <carolmooredc@verizon.net mailto:carolmooredc@verizon.net> wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Wikipedia_Day_2015 Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 is a celebration and mini-conference for the project's 14th birthday,* to be held on Sunday March 22, 2015, hosted at Barnard College starting at 10:00 am, and also supported by Wikimedia New York City and fellow Free Culture Alliance NYC partners. There are various events, sessions, talks, etc. Nothing women oriented but I do see involvement by a new NYC meetup group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/AfroCrowd" Talk page hasn't even been opened yet to comment on its goal: "to increase the number of people of African Descent who actively partake in the Wikimedia and free knowledge, culture and software movements." I guess meetups targeted on certain groups are less controversial than task forces. _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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From a UK perspective, I have been to and helped to run a couple of
women-based editathons, they were mainly attended by women but were never intended to be exclusive. There have also been a couple of black history editathons in London, again they were not exclusive to any particular group. I ran the first LGBT editathon in the UK, again it was open to everyone and all attendees were happy with the idea of it being run under the safe space policy.
As far as I know, there has never been an exclusive editathon but themed events are a good idea and will attract those most interested in the subject. There have, however, been exclusive or invitation-only workshops. I would like to see exclusivity of any kind kept to a minimum when Wikimedia funding is being used. If an organization is funding their own event, such as an in-house editathon, then clearly it's up to them.
When I recently raised my concern about an invitation only Wikimedia funded event with no published criteria for selection nor even a clear explanation of who was doing the selection, I was conveniently called a bully, so any future worry I have along these lines will be quietly handled as a complaint to the FDC, or whoever is most directly spending donors money in ways that may be seen as partisan or based on personal networks.
Fae
On 23 March 2015 at 15:25, Neotarf neotarf@gmail.com wrote:
That's interesting:
"The workshops are open to all Afrodescendants including but not limited to individuals who self-identify as African, African-American, Afro-Latino, Biracial, Black, Black-American, Caribbean, Garifuna, Haitian or West Indian."
I've never seen editithons that exclude people before. I've been to a couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course there was a very high proportion of African descent. Likewise, the women's editing events I have attended have been very welcoming to men, although as you would expect, there is a very high attendance level for women.