An English Wikipedia gender neutral policy, similar to the one developed for Commons, is now under "lively" discussion in a Requests for Comment started this afternoon. You can read the proposed policy and join in by adding your viewpoint at: Shortcut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL Full link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/RfC_to_adopt_a_...
Some of the comments may be upsetting for some readers. I've actually been a bit surprised. If it's too much drama for you, go focus on something more fun.
Thanks, Fae Wikimedia LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
On 5 April 2017 at 11:44, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
One of the outcomes from my weekend at the Wikimedia Conference in Berlin, was that the various discussions over /feeling/ more welcoming in our language presumptions for non-male contributors made me think about taking some practical steps on my home project. Commons is lucky that having a standard policy language of English makes it easier to use neutral gender in policy statements. I'm taking that further by proposing that we stick to a neutral gender for all our policies and help pages. In practice this means that policies avoid using "he or she" and stick to "they" or avoid using a pronoun at all. I'm hoping that the outcome will feel like a much more natural space for people like me that prefer to stay gender neutral, possibly give a slightly safer feeling to the project by the very act of making the effort, as well as avoiding an over-emphasis on binary gender when it's pretty easy to simply avoid it.
Comments are welcome on the specific proposal, or you may have ideas for other local projects to do something similar. I'm aware that this is much more difficult to make progress on in languages such as German or Spanish that have a presumption of male/female gender within their vocabulary, so any cases of on-project initiatives in non-English would be especially interesting. Solving these challenges is an opportunity to make our projects a leader on gender neutrality...
Reminder! If you want to express your opinion in the English Wikipedia Request for Comment on whether to adopt gender neutral language in Wikipedia policies (but not articles or discussion pages), this is due to be *closed this weekend* having reached 30 days for votes and discussion. Shortcut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL Full link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/RfC_to_adopt_a_...
The tally is currently 80 support votes versus 61 oppose votes. That's 57.6% support. A non-controversial "supermajority", as used in some past RfCs, would require over 60% support.
As a taster, here are 3 sample views expressed for support and oppose, it's worth browsing through the RfC discussion section to get a feel for the arguments raised and balance of evidence:
Support "I have no issues with this being done. Assuming proper grammar is maintained, I think that this can probably be done without an RfC. Though perhaps the opposition here proves otherwise."
Support "It does not affect others but helps those, who do not use he or she as pronouns. Using they is also shorter than writing he or she."
Support "I support the use of gender-neutral language in order to make everyone feel welcome here at Wikipedia."
Oppose "I do not support altering our text to the proposed doublethink new-language at the behest of a small minority of non-conformers who perceive micro-aggressions from standard wording."
Oppose "I am a person, not an object. I was born a man, I will die a man, and I demand to be referred to in a gender supportive language. Don't force you preference for gender neutrality on the rest of us through policy initiatives, otherwise it ceases to be neutrality and becomes fascist in nature."
Oppose "A bridge too far, heavyhanded and unnecessary. Sure I'd be on board with suggesting that generic "he" be replaced with singular "they" or "he or she" or whatever. But, no, even "he or she" is considered hostile. Sorry, I consider this an egregious case of special pleading and first-world-problemism. How about instead lets worry about how we are unwelcoming to women. That's a lot bigger problem."
To see who said what, go to the RfC. :-)
Thanks, Fae Wikimedia LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
On 7 April 2017 at 22:51, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
An English Wikipedia gender neutral policy, similar to the one developed for Commons, is now under "lively" discussion in a Requests for Comment started this afternoon. You can read the proposed policy and join in by adding your viewpoint at: Shortcut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL Full link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/RfC_to_adopt_a_...
Some of the comments may be upsetting for some readers. I've actually been a bit surprised. If it's too much drama for you, go focus on something more fun.
Thanks, Fae Wikimedia LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
On 5 April 2017 at 11:44, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
One of the outcomes from my weekend at the Wikimedia Conference in Berlin, was that the various discussions over /feeling/ more welcoming in our language presumptions for non-male contributors made me think about taking some practical steps on my home project. Commons is lucky that having a standard policy language of English makes it easier to use neutral gender in policy statements. I'm taking that further by proposing that we stick to a neutral gender for all our policies and help pages. In practice this means that policies avoid using "he or she" and stick to "they" or avoid using a pronoun at all. I'm hoping that the outcome will feel like a much more natural space for people like me that prefer to stay gender neutral, possibly give a slightly safer feeling to the project by the very act of making the effort, as well as avoiding an over-emphasis on binary gender when it's pretty easy to simply avoid it.
Comments are welcome on the specific proposal, or you may have ideas for other local projects to do something similar. I'm aware that this is much more difficult to make progress on in languages such as German or Spanish that have a presumption of male/female gender within their vocabulary, so any cases of on-project initiatives in non-English would be especially interesting. Solving these challenges is an opportunity to make our projects a leader on gender neutrality...
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
"that's very good i have not had any luck engaging partollers."
Ha, did you try barnstars? So here is a link to my article tutorial, feel free to introduce it to patrollers or anyone else. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Neotarf&diff=prev...
@Fae, congratulations on the Commons RfC, at least it's one out of two, and the enwiki discussion was close. I do not agree with the closure on the basis that notification of mailing lists is "canvassing". If you look at WP:CANVASSING, the guideline discourages email notifications because they are private. A mailing list is not "email" just because you can opt to have posts delivered to your in box. It is quite public, anyone can read it.
On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Reminder! If you want to express your opinion in the English Wikipedia Request for Comment on whether to adopt gender neutral language in Wikipedia policies (but not articles or discussion pages), this is due to be *closed this weekend* having reached 30 days for votes and discussion. Shortcut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL Full link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_ comment/RfC_to_adopt_a_default_gender_neutral_style_ for_policy,_guidelines_and_help_pages
The tally is currently 80 support votes versus 61 oppose votes. That's 57.6% support. A non-controversial "supermajority", as used in some past RfCs, would require over 60% support.
As a taster, here are 3 sample views expressed for support and oppose, it's worth browsing through the RfC discussion section to get a feel for the arguments raised and balance of evidence:
Support "I have no issues with this being done. Assuming proper grammar is maintained, I think that this can probably be done without an RfC. Though perhaps the opposition here proves otherwise."
Support "It does not affect others but helps those, who do not use he or she as pronouns. Using they is also shorter than writing he or she."
Support "I support the use of gender-neutral language in order to make everyone feel welcome here at Wikipedia."
Oppose "I do not support altering our text to the proposed doublethink new-language at the behest of a small minority of non-conformers who perceive micro-aggressions from standard wording."
Oppose "I am a person, not an object. I was born a man, I will die a man, and I demand to be referred to in a gender supportive language. Don't force you preference for gender neutrality on the rest of us through policy initiatives, otherwise it ceases to be neutrality and becomes fascist in nature."
Oppose "A bridge too far, heavyhanded and unnecessary. Sure I'd be on board with suggesting that generic "he" be replaced with singular "they" or "he or she" or whatever. But, no, even "he or she" is considered hostile. Sorry, I consider this an egregious case of special pleading and first-world-problemism. How about instead lets worry about how we are unwelcoming to women. That's a lot bigger problem."
To see who said what, go to the RfC. :-)
Thanks, Fae Wikimedia LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
On 7 April 2017 at 22:51, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
An English Wikipedia gender neutral policy, similar to the one developed for Commons, is now under "lively" discussion in a Requests for Comment started this afternoon. You can read the proposed policy and join in by adding your viewpoint at: Shortcut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL Full link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_
comment/RfC_to_adopt_a_default_gender_neutral_style_ for_policy,_guidelines_and_help_pages
Some of the comments may be upsetting for some readers. I've actually been a bit surprised. If it's too much drama for you, go focus on something more fun.
Thanks, Fae Wikimedia LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
On 5 April 2017 at 11:44, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Defaulting_to_gender_neutral_language_in_the_Commons_namespace
Hi,
One of the outcomes from my weekend at the Wikimedia Conference in Berlin, was that the various discussions over /feeling/ more welcoming in our language presumptions for non-male contributors made me think about taking some practical steps on my home project. Commons is lucky that having a standard policy language of English makes it easier to use neutral gender in policy statements. I'm taking that further by proposing that we stick to a neutral gender for all our policies and help pages. In practice this means that policies avoid using "he or she" and stick to "they" or avoid using a pronoun at all. I'm hoping that the outcome will feel like a much more natural space for people like me that prefer to stay gender neutral, possibly give a slightly safer feeling to the project by the very act of making the effort, as well as avoiding an over-emphasis on binary gender when it's pretty easy to simply avoid it.
Comments are welcome on the specific proposal, or you may have ideas for other local projects to do something similar. I'm aware that this is much more difficult to make progress on in languages such as German or Spanish that have a presumption of male/female gender within their vocabulary, so any cases of on-project initiatives in non-English would be especially interesting. Solving these challenges is an opportunity to make our projects a leader on gender neutrality...
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
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