Some food for thought for all:
"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission."
Eleanor Roosevelt
MR
Return food for thought:
Inferiority is not always something you feel because of a problem that you have wrong inside you. Often times, there are systematic problems that help reinforce this. Some people have categorically treated as inferior. Having a male suggest this is all in the minds of female contributors is not a useful contribution to the conversation because it devalues the experiences of female contributors on this list, on a list dedicated specifically to fixing these problems. We want to empower female contributors and leaders. We want them to go back to their communities and help work towards increasing overall participation to Wikimedia projects and female participation to Wikimedia projects.
Dismissing real and valid concerns does not help: It hurts. A man quoting a woman to dismiss valid concerns makes it worse. I know that was probably not your intent. I know you probably did not intend to cause additional hurt by dismissing valid concerns.
If we want to fix this problem, we need to remember this. If we have women saying "I am having trouble connecting to this list. I do not feel it represents my interests. The primary focus is on articles of interest to a narrow audience," then we need to work to be more inclusive. I'd love to know more about what is happening in regards to women's related content on French Wikipedia, efforts being made by the community to increase female participation on various Wikimedia Foundation projects, the quality of women's related content on French Wikipedia. We don't often have a chance to hear this narrative. There are 115 million native speakers of the language and around 270 million people who can speak it. It is the official language in some 29 countries around the globe including France. France ranks ninth in the amount of visitors to English Wikipedia. French Wikipedia accounts for 4.7% of traffic to ALL language Wikipedia. There is a huge potential to grow the female participation rates and the general French speaking participation rates on Wikimedia projects.
How can we support this? How can we use the list to support contributors who do not speak English? What steps can we take to make sure we are more inclusive? One of the failings of the gender gap list is we so rarely do that. :(
_____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 27 December 2011 01:09, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
Some food for thought for all:
"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission."
Eleanor RooseveltMR
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
So Beria doesn't get in trouble, she was quoting an e-mail I sent some one off list that I forwarded to her. She had my permission to do so. :)
I adore Beria. I think she has done fantastic work. She helped Wikimedia Bangladesh get through the chapter process. She has done some really awesome projects with her chapter, including involvement with Wiki Loves Monuments. She's been there to support other women in the movement who are need help with developing networks to be effective leaders. She has done work with Indians on the gender gap related issue. She has helped make WikiWomenCamp possible, has invited other women, has participated in discussions in a way that made people feel inclusive. We don't always see eye to eye, but Beria has put aside her own ego for the good of the group and to assist everyone else in accomplishing goals.
Beria is fantastic. Is she rude sometimes? Yes. On the other hand, some times this is necessary because otherwise the voices of some won't be heard. We've seen it on this list several times: Members of the list have, while operating in good faith and for the greater good, accidentally said things that have a chilling effect and where this is ignored for the sake of keeping the peace with more vocal members. It sucks. It sucks worse when you realise the voices that are silenced are the very ones this list seeks to give voice to on Wikipedia and related projects.
Beria is just one of several women on this list I adore. I think Sarah generally does fantastic things. I think she'll do interesting things in terms of trying to help get women involved and I look forward to seeing her initiatives. She has done some truly fantastic and outstanding work with the Smithsonian that no one could fault her for. I know of a few other women on this list who are non-English speakers who have been heavily involved with educational projects , GLAM projects and projects like Wiki Loves Monuments. The secretary of WM-AU is on the list, and she's been tremendously supportive and wonderful. We're hoping to do some initiatives in the future to help improve Australian female representation on Wikimedia projects. I love Nicole from Wikihow, who also contributes to Wikipedia. She's done some great things in the primary school classroom in starting to get kids engaged with wikis and has been fantastic in helping us with WikiWomenCamp.
There are a lot of truly fantastic women on this list like Beria and Sarah. They do truly fantastic work and don't often get the credit for it. We need to assume more good faith on this list. We need to work harder to support the work these women do.
And we really need to cut out the stuff that silences women by invalidating their opinions and pitting them against each other. We need to remember that this is a GLOBAL list, with people of many different cultures, that this list is not just for one country, but everyone. We need to encourage people to come up with solutions and support those solutions.
Oh and yeah, Beria had permission to quote me. :)
Sincerely, Laura Hale
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
Return food for thought:
Inferiority is not always something you feel because of a problem that you have wrong inside you. Often times, there are systematic problems that help reinforce this. Some people have categorically treated as inferior. Having a male suggest this is all in the minds of female contributors is not a useful contribution to the conversation because it devalues the experiences of female contributors on this list, on a list dedicated specifically to fixing these problems. We want to empower female contributors and leaders. We want them to go back to their communities and help work towards increasing overall participation to Wikimedia projects and female participation to Wikimedia projects.
Dismissing real and valid concerns does not help: It hurts. A man quoting a woman to dismiss valid concerns makes it worse. I know that was probably not your intent. I know you probably did not intend to cause additional hurt by dismissing valid concerns.
If we want to fix this problem, we need to remember this. If we have women saying "I am having trouble connecting to this list. I do not feel it represents my interests. The primary focus is on articles of interest to a narrow audience," then we need to work to be more inclusive. I'd love to know more about what is happening in regards to women's related content on French Wikipedia, efforts being made by the community to increase female participation on various Wikimedia Foundation projects, the quality of women's related content on French Wikipedia. We don't often have a chance to hear this narrative. There are 115 million native speakers of the language and around 270 million people who can speak it. It is the official language in some 29 countries around the globe including France. France ranks ninth in the amount of visitors to English Wikipedia. French Wikipedia accounts for 4.7% of traffic to ALL language Wikipedia. There is a huge potential to grow the female participation rates and the general French speaking participation rates on Wikimedia projects.
How can we support this? How can we use the list to support contributors who do not speak English? What steps can we take to make sure we are more inclusive? One of the failings of the gender gap list is we so rarely do that. :(
*Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 27 December 2011 01:09, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.netwrote:
Some food for thought for all:
"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission."
Eleanor RooseveltMR
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Take a bow for women everywhere Béria, wonderfully put. Thank you. Anne
----- Original Message ----- From: Béria Lima To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Some Food for Thought
Return food for thought:
Inferiority is not always something you feel because of a problem that you have wrong inside you. Often times, there are systematic problems that help reinforce this. Some people have categorically treated as inferior. Having a male suggest this is all in the minds of female contributors is not a useful contribution to the conversation because it devalues the experiences of female contributors on this list, on a list dedicated specifically to fixing these problems. We want to empower female contributors and leaders. We want them to go back to their communities and help work towards increasing overall participation to Wikimedia projects and female participation to Wikimedia projects.
Dismissing real and valid concerns does not help: It hurts. A man quoting a woman to dismiss valid concerns makes it worse. I know that was probably not your intent. I know you probably did not intend to cause additional hurt by dismissing valid concerns.
If we want to fix this problem, we need to remember this. If we have women saying "I am having trouble connecting to this list. I do not feel it represents my interests. The primary focus is on articles of interest to a narrow audience," then we need to work to be more inclusive. I'd love to know more about what is happening in regards to women's related content on French Wikipedia, efforts being made by the community to increase female participation on various Wikimedia Foundation projects, the quality of women's related content on French Wikipedia. We don't often have a chance to hear this narrative. There are 115 million native speakers of the language and around 270 million people who can speak it. It is the official language in some 29 countries around the globe including France. France ranks ninth in the amount of visitors to English Wikipedia. French Wikipedia accounts for 4.7% of traffic to ALL language Wikipedia. There is a huge potential to grow the female participation rates and the general French speaking participation rates on Wikimedia projects.
How can we support this? How can we use the list to support contributors who do not speak English? What steps can we take to make sure we are more inclusive? One of the failings of the gender gap list is we so rarely do that. :(
_____ Béria Lima Wikimedia Portugal (351) 963 953 042
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho.
On 27 December 2011 01:09, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
Some food for thought for all:
"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission."
Eleanor Roosevelt
MR
_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On 12/27/2011 4:20 AM, Béria Lima wrote:
Return food for thought:
Inferiority is not always something you feel because of a problem that you have wrong inside you. Often times, there are systematic problems that help reinforce this. Some people have categorically treated as inferior. Having a male suggest this is all in the minds of female contributors is not a useful contribution to the conversation because it devalues the experiences of female contributors on this list, on a list dedicated specifically to fixing these problems. We want to empower female contributors and leaders. We want them to go back to their communities and help work towards increasing overall participation to Wikimedia projects and female participation to Wikimedia projects.
Or as I would have put it, most men don't know what it's like to be constantly insulted, denigrated, bullied, ignored, even if in subtle fashion. Really short, really ugly, gay/transgender/bi, super nerdy guys may know what it's like in adolescence, but when they mature and if they gain skills that make them financially successful even many of them will finally be allowed to join the "manhood" club, one of whose pass keys is denigrating women. All this doesn't necessarily make women feel inferior. But it may make women depressed, prone to lose onesself in female addictions (food, kids, clothes, etc), unfocused, passive, or on the other hand angry, destructive, revengeful, drama queeny (yeah!), etc etc.
Dismissing real and valid concerns does not help: It hurts. A man quoting a woman to dismiss valid concerns makes it worse. I know that was probably not your intent. I know you probably did not intend to cause additional hurt by dismissing valid concerns.
Your analysis is more generous than mine :-)
If we want to fix this problem, we need to remember this. If we have women saying "I am having trouble connecting to this list. I do not feel it represents my interests. The primary focus is on articles of interest to a narrow audience," then we need to work to be more inclusive. I'd love to know more about what is happening in regards to women's related content on French Wikipedia, efforts being made by the community to increase female participation on various Wikimedia Foundation projects, the quality of women's related content on French Wikipedia. We don't often have a chance to hear this narrative. There are 115 million native speakers of the language and around 270 million people who can speak it. It is the official language in some 29 countries around the globe including France. France ranks ninth in the amount of visitors to English Wikipedia. French Wikipedia accounts for 4.7% of traffic to ALL language Wikipedia. There is a huge potential to grow the female participation rates and the general French speaking participation rates on Wikimedia projects.
How can we support this? How can we use the list to support contributors who do not speak English? What steps can we take to make sure we are more inclusive? One of the failings of the gender gap list is we so rarely do that. :(
Another idea - Someone could always post things in french and then link to google translate :-)