--- On Mon, 7/2/11, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net wrote:
I doubt he will leave, but he was certainly in need of some feedback.
You were right there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Timneu22&diff=prev&a...
I did think the incident would have left less of an impression on *him*. ;)
Feedback mechanisms are essential to the functioning of any complex system.
Feedback mechanisms only work if feedback is actually received; there is often little evidence of that.
On a different, but not completely unrelated issue, how do women editors feel about illustrations like those used here (Warning - not safe for viewing at work):
In my experience, any attempt to argue for editorial restraint in illustrating pages like this (e.g., using just *one* image, and leaving the rest to a Commons link) runs into a [[WP:NOTCENSORED]] brickwall. Female editors (with one exception I believe, who has run into this brickwall repeatedly to no effect, and at some cost to herself) are rarely participants in such discussions.
I am fairly certain that a demographically balanced pool of editors would come to a very different consensus than the one presently supported at these and similar pages.
Now one might argue that the majority of women readers and contributors are unlikely to visit these pages, and that therefore their look will not adversely affect their willingness to participate in Wikipedia. On the other hand, if viewed as an expression of prevailing Wikipedia demographics and community norms, they may also be seen as a reflection of an entrenched male-dominated culture that is confident in its ability to nullify and discount any challenge to its standards as illegitimate, and in conflict with project goals.
I think women editors need to do more to challenge this culture. Such an effort in itself, leading by example, might bring more female editors on board, and also get some male editors to reflect on their own assumptions. Perhaps a WikiProject or work group would be in order. Feminist action was necessary to effect change in society, to get people to stop and think, and I believe we need a little of that in Wikipedia as well. Males will not drop it by themselves, and it is not actually good for them to remain unchallenged on such issues.
Thoughts?
Andreas
Not saying anything about what you think is a serious issue is passive aggression, saving up issues while neglecting to give notice that there is a problem.
Wikiproject? Yes, go do it, tell us where you put it. Although perhaps a bit of discussion about the exact nature of the project might be in order.
I'm thinking a Don't bite the newbies administrative notice board might be a good idea too.
User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Female_participation has developed further, with examples of ugly behavior like those here: Wikipedia_talk:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion/Archive_40#Inability_of_admins_to_recognize_patent_nonsense
And, of course, we have the usual nonsense that this user is the little boy with his finger in the dike and everything would go to hell without him.
And there is some truth in it, as I have pointed out. A campaign against nastiness has its own nasty disruptive effects.
As to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogtie_bondage there is no question that people do this, but it is hard to see an overriding public interest in need for information as is present in say, anal sex.
Bukkake is at least interesting. I guess all of this stuff can be justified on that basis, seeing how the other half lives, so to speak.
I've campaigned futilely against images of Mohammad in the past, same argument, however offensive, some are interested, and it is valid information (if not about Mohammad, about Islamic art and European cartoons).
Fred