Dear Sue and all,
We can suffer under an entropic dispute on the multiple origins of the gendergap
Gender discrimination is the consequence of a long historic heritage in most of the peoples of the world (there are notable exceptions).
´
We are in a key moment of history where the gender balance is arriving and we can contribute to make the difference.
Let´s try in the most positively way we can together:
Emphasising the value of articles, categories, e.a. dedicated to female issues, such as the political process towards women´s rights, articles on UN documents on women, other legislations that facilitates the fully exercise of the potentiality of the female condition. Having some key interviews with prominent women (Michelle Bachelet, Mary Robinson, e.a.) on the WP`s role for helping women, such as the WP interview with Umberto Eco. Traducing articles of interesting cases, figures, e.a. related to the women, from a language to another Motivating young female researchers to write an article on her research (a global appeal to female PhD, for example) Having a small team for assisting editors that would be unsure or sensitive for the process of making articles on female issues and for suggesting topics.
WP is essentially a global project with a wonderful and powerful impact worldwide, promoting multicultural and interlingual exchange and cooperation. WP can make an extraordinary contribution to reducing the gendergap too. best regards,patricia
--- On Thu, 3/17/11, Collective Action collective_action@hotmail.com wrote:
From: Collective Action collective_action@hotmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] This list To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, March 17, 2011, 10:41 PM
Dear Sue & All,
I am yet to experience sexism on Wikipedia however my reading of this list has only served to confuse me with regard to the gender gap issue. I am hoping that someone can clarify the following points with some kind of authority.
Is there any consensus in the Wikipedia/Wikimedia heirarchy that the Gender gap on Wikipedia is a problem that Wikipedia is trying to solve (apparently with the help of this list)?
Is there any consensus in the Wikipedia/Wikimedia heirarchy that women who attempt to contribute to Wikipedia are likely to be subject to chronic sexist remarks and that this is presumed to factor into the lower participation rates of women?
What is the responsibility of Wikipedia/Wikimedia in protecting individuals from harrassment and in particular, any systemic abuse which is believed to be endemic to Wikipedia?
How does Wikipedia take responsibility to ensure that when people come to Wikipedia to edit for the first time they are made aware of problems they may encounter (both due to their gender and more generally) and the actions they can take to address these issues?
What are the roles of the Wikimedia/Wikipedia hierarchy here on the list and do official representatives of these organisations have rights to determine the debate here that go beyond the power of other list members?
What, if any quality assaurance guidelines, structure or policy is behind this list and the goal of reducing the gender gap on Wikipedia and the relationship between the two?
thankyou for your time
Rosie Williams http://women4wikipedia.net http://collectiveaction.com.au @collectiveact
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:14:24 -0700 From: Sue Gardner sgardner@wikimedia.org Subject: [Gendergap] This list To: gendergap Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: AANLkTimoLEv9O9cLNPhxoh7LGr+bUegrO1bR=9d+qBEd@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi folks,
Wow! I was absent for two days and this list caught fire! The newer mails feel like we've been nearer a resolution, but still: there was lots of heat :-(
I'm going to take a minute to try to summarize and reflect back a little. Bear with me: I'm on my phone, so I'm not going to be able to quote individuals or respond inline to earlier mails. But I have read everything.
To recap: Laura originally made a proposal to ask the men on this list to leave. Her rationale was that men have been inappropriately dominating the discussion here, which had the effect of silencing and/or frustrating women who expect and want this to be a safe, constructive space. I believe that in making that proposal, she was acting out of frustration not just on her own behalf, but on behalf of other women here who've been feeling silenced, whether they've spoken up or not.
If Laura's proposal had gotten significant support from women on this list, personally I would take that very seriously. It would make me sad to think that women here couldn't see a workable option that includes both women and men ----- but if there had seemed to be a consensus among women that a women-only list is desirable or better, I would buy that as a regrettable-but-accurate expression of where we're at.
But, although some people expressed agreement with the basics of what Laura said, there wasn't much support for the idea of kicking men off the list. So on that basis, we won't do it.
(To recap for anyone who doesn't know: Erik Moeller started this list at my request. That makes me the de facto owner, although I'm totally willing to share that responsibility with others, and I think we all have a responsibility to help self-govern.)
So. Having said that, personally I think the issues Laura raised are real, and the discussion they prompted was useful. I think some helpful stuff has gotten said, particularly when some of the quieter people started to speak up, and I'd like to now say a few things too.
Essentially: since the list started, a number of people (including me) have observed that i) there are a lot of men here, maybe more than women, and ii) the men have talked quite a bit. Certainly there have been times on this list when I felt like a small number of men were dominating the conversation, and occasionally also seeming to me to deny women's experiences, and/or to tell them how to feel about them. (Lots of men were also asking questions or just listening or offering support of various kinds.)
That didn't surprise me: I think it's "normal." If you're a man, and you've been trained that your opinion is valuable and wanted: well, then you are fairly likely to believe that, and to act accordingly. Similarly, a couple of women here have talked about how they've been socialized to stay quiet and to defer, and that therefore that's what they tend to do. In general, I think it would be hard to fault people too much for their cultural conditioning. And honestly, women here are likelier to be more aware of (and thoughtful about) our conditioning than men are, because as the non-dominant group we've had to think about it more. So I am not surprised that some men here haven't been (IMO) super self-reflective and self-moderating. And I am also, honestly, not surprised to see a few women get really, really angry about that, because my guess is this is not their first time at that rodeo ;-)
I think that everyone here has a responsibility to try to be self-aware about how their behaviour is affecting other people. The Quakers have a really nice principle for their meetings, that in general, quiet people should aim to talk more, and talkative people should aim to restrain themselves. I think that's a really good rule. I would like to hear more from the people here who've been holding back. And I believe we would hear more, if the talkative people were a little more restrained.
I also want to say something about men on this list, in general. Personally, I believe we need to have, and want to have, and should have, men on this list. I say that because I want Wikipedia to have more female editors, and I think that the men here can and should be (and want to be!) part of the solution, working towards that.
Thirteen per cent of Wikipedia editors are women. I assume that many of those women have no interest in personally, themselves, working to increase the number of women editors on Wikipedia. Which is totally fine with me: why should they? If they didn't sign up to be gender warriors, then they shouldn't be gender warriors: they are in no way obligated to do it.
But somebody's got to make this happen, and I'm happy to have allies regardless of their gender. I consider everyone on this list an ally. Nobody here IMO is trolling, and I'm really happy that nobody here is contesting the basic premise: that we want to fix this problem. Everybody's acting in good faith: I truly believe that. Some of us are probably inadvertently offensive, and some of that offence comes out of unexamined privilege, for sure. And some of the women here have expressed lots of anger and frustration, some of which probably doesn't belong on this list, but spills out here because it's been brewing for years due to their experiences elsewhere, in addition to their experiences on Wikipedia and/or this list.
I think we all have a responsibility to try to be our best possible selves here --- by which I mean our most generous, constructive, helpful, collaborative, trusting, listening, understanding selves. Everybody's damaged; nobody's perfect; we're all going to make plenty of mistakes. But everybody here wants to solve this problem: that's why we're here. It's going to be a lot of work, and we're going to need all different types of people. A bunch of non-mutually-exclusive categories: we will need radical feminists, plus experienced editors, plus new editors, plus external observers, plus people who like to question and probe, plus staff people, plus men exploring their privilege and thinking about these issues for the first time, plus lurkers. Plus plus plus.
We've all got a role to play. And I hope we all want to continue the work we've started :-)
Thanks, Sue
-- ?Sue Gardner Executive Director Wikimedia Foundation
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