I don't think it is anymore.
It hasn't been for me, at least, for a while now. This is a public list,
it's full of supporters and people who also sit here and read everything on
this list just to keep tabs on what "We" are talking about.
It's back fired on me, and the work I've done on wiki as a volunteer and as
a WMF staffer.
Perhaps it's time to think about how those of us feeling we need a safe
space, can really create that safe space. But, that's a challenge. In a
world where transparency is expected, transparency can only go so far when
it's violating your privacy and experience in a community you're involved
in.
Sarah
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Katherine Casey <
fluffernutter.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Quoth Tom Morton:* "But I know I am in a minority singing from the
> sensible hymn sheet around here so I'll put up ;) hopefully having made a
> point that might cause at least one person to think carefully."*
>
> Well, you've certainly made me think carefully about whether this list is
> actually a safe space to discuss sexism- and gender-related issues.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Thomas Morton <
> morton.thomas(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> He almost certainly would have :)
>>
>> There is nothing inappropriate about the phrase mind and body.
>>
>> What is inappropriate is nerd rage. That's what puts of people (of all
>> sorts) from contributing.
>>
>> But I know I am in a minority singing from the sensible hymn sheet around
>> here so I'll put up ;) hopefully having made a point that might cause at
>> least one person to think carefully.
>>
>> Tom
>> On 18 Jul 2013 17:49, "Ryan Kaldari" <rkaldari(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 18, 2013, at 8:41 AM, Thomas Morton <morton.thomas(a)googlemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> My thought was on reading your comment was something like... it didn't
>>> seem at all a sexist comment, and wondering why you were focusing on the
>>> word "body" and ingnoring "mind".
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course it was sexist. Would Drmies have made a joke about
>>> complimenting the editor's body if the editor had been male? Not a chance
>>> in hell. Just because something isn't blatantly offensive doesn't mean it
>>> isn't sexist.
>>>
>>> Ryan Kaldari
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It struck me as somewhat odd, pleasant, sweet post which elicited an
>>> unpleasant reaction.
>>>
>>> I'd suggest probably to anyone reading it.. the reaction is what might
>>> put them off Wikipedia. Because after all, a friendly posting on a
>>> noticeboard getting flamed is the sort of environment we *know* is
>>> offputting to people.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 July 2013 16:10, Katherine Casey <fluffernutter.wiki(a)gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> But I did all those things, Powers. I said that I knew it was supposed
>>>> to be humourous and that LoS might not personally mind it, and I said that
>>>> my concern was for other people reading it. And the responses I've gotten,
>>>> both directed at me and among people not talking to me, were pretty
>>>> horrible. All of them alleged that I had no right to speak at all, and
>>>> certainly not a right to ruin the fun other editors were having with my
>>>> silly old "women are equal" crap.
>>>>
>>>> I see a large part - maybe the bigger part - of the problem here as the
>>>> fact that men perceive my intervention as "humorless scolding" that's just
>>>> out to ruin their good, clean fun (fun that was totally humorous and in no
>>>> way in need of correction, of course), and that they feel the appropriate
>>>> response to that is to jeer, laugh, and insult me freely, the better to
>>>> make sure no woman dares speak up next time.
>>>>
>>>> As a thought experiment, Powers, consider: would you ever tell a male
>>>> editor that their behavior came off as "scolding"? I suspect the answer is
>>>> no; that's a term almost exclusively reserved for use against women.
>>>>
>>>> -Fluff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Powers <LtPowers_Wiki(a)rochester.rr.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think your approach was well-intentioned but flawed, much like
>>>>> Drmies’ initial post.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, your admonition came off like the stereotypical “that’s
>>>>> so sexist to comment on a woman’s body” approach, which triggered defenses
>>>>> that focused on the fact that it was just a joke, Drmies and LoS are
>>>>> friends, why don’t you people have a sense of humor?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If, instead, you’d acknowledged the humor (rather than just an attempt
>>>>> at humor), acknowledged that LoS herself likely would not find it
>>>>> offensive, nor that Drmies intended it as such… and then explained that
>>>>> your concern was for other editors who might come across the comment and,
>>>>> not knowing the relationships involved, tick Wikipedia down yet another
>>>>> mental notch in “welcomingness”.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead you came across as humorless and scolding, which rarely
>>>>> garners productive responses.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Powers &8^]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> *From:* Katherine Casey [mailto:fluffernutter.wiki@gmail.com]
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday 17 July 2013 14:24
>>>>> *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
>>>>> *Subject:* [Gendergap] Casual sexism on en.wp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another day, another example<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_not…>of casual sexism exhibited by en.wikipedia editors who mean absolutely no
>>>>> harm, but simply don't understand how they could cause harm while meaning
>>>>> none. I seem to have<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Anothe…>caused significant alarm and offense to a number of male editors be
>>>>> publicly pointing out that I found the comment inappropriate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Was there a better way to handle this? I can't help feeling that
>>>>> saying nothing or hatting the section would have been supporting the notion
>>>>> that it's either not a problem or not remarkable for male editors to make
>>>>> comments encouraging others to comment on female editors' bodies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Fluff
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>>>> Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>>> Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gendergap mailing list
>> Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
--
--
*Sarah Stierch*
*Museumist, open culture advocate, and Wikimedian*
*www.sarahstierch.com*
Hi everyone,
I'm a member of a feminist technology academic group called the Fembot
Collective.
Later this week we are having the FemBot Conference: Multiplying
Standpoints and Participatory Feminism.
Friday I am helping to facilitate a hackathon and craftathon in Portland,
OR. It's free!
Hackers, crafters, Wikipedians and the like are all welcome. Bring your
skill and put it to work with a great group of people. Please spread the
word:
http://csws.uoregon.edu/?p=16584
Feel free to forward this email, and I hope you'll join us!
-Sarah
--
--
*Sarah Stierch*
*Museumist, open culture advocate, and Wikimedian*
*www.sarahstierch.com*
Dear all,
An interesting talk by Alyssa Wright on the gender gap at OpenStreetMap:
http://vimeopro.com/openstreetmapus/state-of-the-map-us-2013/video/68098504
Wikipedia is referred to a few times in the talk. There are many obvious
parallels and some relevant insights. Also a tool to measure participation
on mailing lists in different ways, including by gender (from 16:54).
Best
Bishakha
Hi all,
It would be great to have more ideas related to increasing women's
participation, or anything else you're interested in - please see below.
Hope to find you in the Lab (and apologies for cross posting if you're
already getting this on several lists!).
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Siko Bouterse <sbouterse(a)wikimedia.org>
Date: Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:27 PM
Subject: Open call for new ideas in the Grants:IdeaLab
To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Hi all,
We've updated the Grants:IdeaLab to make it easier to find and share ideas
for projects to improve Wikimedia, and connect with potential
collaborators. Please come have a look and share your ideas!
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab
Some of the ideas being collaboratively developed in the Lab may be turned
into Individual Engagement Grant proposals (IEG Round 2 open call starts
Aug 1).
Looking forward to your thoughts,
Siko
--
Siko Bouterse
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
sbouterse(a)wikimedia.org
*Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. *
*Donate <https://donate.wikimedia.org> or click the "edit" button today,
and help us make it a reality!*
--
Siko Bouterse
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
sbouterse(a)wikimedia.org
*Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. *
*Donate <https://donate.wikimedia.org> or click the "edit" button today,
and help us make it a reality!*
Sorry to those who are tired of the image/consent discussions, but
just wanted to bring this to this list's attention as well.
I'm tagging this thread with "[Commons]" and suggest others do the
same in future to make it easier for people who do not want to discuss
Commons or who feel inundated with the subject matter to filter these
messages. Also, if you're using Google Mail, you can "mute" a thread
(under the "More" options after you open the thread) and you won't see
any future responses in your inbox -- other email clients have similar
features.
Quick notes about an interesting development:
* User:Rillke on Commons has started prototyping a gadget that could
be used to simplify reporting of various issues with images with a
simple "Flag this image" workflow. This discussion is on the Commons
Village Pump.
I've brought that discussion to the attention of WMF legal. Note: It's
not like the current workflow is completely broken -- the
Commons:Contact_us flow is actually pretty good -- but a nicer UI and
more prominent placement could help. The current workflow also does
not provide an option for consent issues.
* I've summarized the current state of his prototype here:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Reporting_abuse
On the talk page I've also recommended that consent to be displayed in
an image be considered in the reporting options.
I'm sure Rillke would appreciate any active development help with the
feature, as well as continued feedback and encouragement (WikiLove?)
which is crucial for volunteer motivation.
Cheers,
Erik
--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
Forwarding a request for participants in a survey about online harassment
(you may also want to track their research and/or resources)...
Hello all,
I'm sending along information on research I'm currently involved in. Please
feel free to forward to anyone who you think might want to participate:
Are you a person, 18 years old or over, who has harassment on the Internet?
If so, we would appreciate your taking the time to complete a survey.
Our names are Dan Taube, Keely Kolmes and Colette Vogele, would like to
request your participation in our research on the experience of online
harassment. Being harassed online includes things like having someone
intrude into your privacy online, someone using the Internet or mobile
phone technology to harm your reputation, or someone stalking you online.
We want to learn about the kinds of experiences people have, how they cope,
and the resources they use to address the problem.
This study has been approved by the Institutional Review Board of Alliant
International University.
As a participant, we will ask you a number of multiple choice questions,
and some short answer questions, regarding your experiences of harassment
on the Internet. Next, we will ask you to give us information about your
age, sex, and similar things. It will take at most 15 minutes to finish the
survey.
Your input may help in developing better services and resources for people
have experienced online harassment.
No names or personal information will be linked to the study and your
participation will be completely anonymous so long as you do not put your
name in your responses. If you should wish to contact the researchers
directly, your participation may become confidential rather than anonymous,
although your name will not be linked to any of the data you submit.
To be eligible for the study, you must be 18 or older, have had (or be
currently having) an experience of online harassment, and be able to read
and understand English.
If you meet these requirements and want to participate, you can find the
survey at: http://goo.gl/pPg5G
If you do not qualify for the study but you know others who might be
interested in participating, feel free to forward this notice or URL.
Thank you for your interest and participation.
Sincerely,
Keely Kolmes, Psy.D. drkkolmes(a)hushmail.com <drkkolmes(a)hushmailgmail.com>
Dan Taube, J.D., Ph.D. dtaube(a)alliant.edu
Colette Vogele, J.D.
--
* * *
Keely Kolmes, Psy.D.
CA License: PSY 21284
220 Montgomery Street, Suite 400
San Francisco, CA 94104
415-501-9098
http://drkkolmes.com
@drkkolmes <https://twitter.com/drkkolmes>
Founder and President, Open Minds <http://bayareaopenminds.org/>
Advisory Board Member, TASHRA <http://www.tashra.org/>
Advisory Board Member, Without My Consent <http://withoutmyconsent.org/>
Member of Diversity Task Force, APA Division 42 <http://division42.org/>
**To send me encrypted email, use my secure webform at
https://forms.hush.com/drkkolmes **
Hey Ladies,
I know this is a bit off topic, but wanted to extend an invitation to a
summit I'm working on that will take place in Berlin from September 30-Oct
1. We have travel grants available, and want to make sure that women are
equally are represented. Here are the details:
The Circumvention Tech Summit IV brings together software developers,
activists, journalists, trainers and others interested in improving tools
to circumvent censorship and surveillance. For this summit, we will
specifically focus on UX, mesh networks, and censorship & surveillance in
Europe.
We are doing a big push for UX people, since this is the one area that
these open source tools are generally lacking in. To RSVP or apply for the
travel grant, visit:
http://openitp.org/openitp/circumvention-tech-summit.html
Again, sorry for the off-topic, but want to make sure the tech is balanced
:)
And I think a lot of Wikipedian women would enjoy this summit :)
Best!
Sandy