Hi Flo,
I see your points but I disagree that a merit award like this is against our values and the spirit of collaboration as a community/movement.
First, there is nothing wrong to honor any member of our community for their standout contributions. Even at National level, individuals get honoured for their contributions. I am aware that you were honored with "Knight" in the French National Order of Merit as Chair of an international organization (WMF). That's an achievement I am proud of. I do not see anything wrong honoring anyone for the works they do.
Secondly, I don't see how gender would be a problem. It's a merit award and not to celebrate anyone because they are male or female or because we want to encourage a particular gender. The two winners of the Wikipedian of the year award in 2016 for example were women and nobody said they emerged because they are women. In 2012, User:Demmy, a Nigerian and a major contributor to Yoruba Wikipedia was honored with the same award and nobody said he was honored because he is a Nigerian. In 2017, Felix Nartey was honored with the award, I didn't hear anymore saying he received the award because he is an African or a Ghananian.
Lastly, the awardee may be nominated by someone who is familiar with their work and recommend them for the award. A panel of jury comprising of experience Wikipedian will review the nominees contributions, on-wiki and off-wiki and pick the person who merit the award.
Flo, I apologize for citing your award. You are the only one I know who has received such award.
Regards,
Isaac.
On Sep 26, 2017 3:33 PM, "Florence Devouard" anthere@anthere.org wrote:
I did not say I am opposed to it. I said I am not supportive of it.
There are several reasons
The first is that I consider that we should work in collaboration and celebrate our diversity and the various pieces that each of us bring. I do not think anything of what we do could have been done without the help of others. Celebrating one person instead of celebrating the team work seems odd/wrong to me. This is why I appreciate initiatives such as "the best projects of the year", which focus on an outcome and the team that made it happen rather than on an individual. Celebrating a "best team work" or "top 3 most amazing projects of the year" would be awesome to me. But celebrating one person... it seems to go against our commonly shared values.
The second reason I am not supportive of it is the complexity of the voting process. Who would vote ? Which voting system would be used ? Would voting be public or private ? How to limit the impact of the vested interest ? In short... lot's of troubles.
The third reason is related to the nomination process. Who will be allowed to nominate someone ? Which rules to be a nominee ? Would there be self nomination ? Would that be public ? Some cultures favor boosting (eg, american from USA) whilst in others, self nomination (or even the prospect of asking someone privately for a nomination) is just very hard to do. Beyond culture... even gender plays a role. Women tend to be less bold than men on such issues. Florence
Le 26/09/2017 à 14:07, Isaac Olatunde a écrit :
Thank you, Justice.
@Flo, may I respectfully ask why you are opposing this?
Regards,
Isaac
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Justice Okai-Allotey < owulakpakpo@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah precisely, let's all discuss if we want to go ahead I think it's a great initiative though .
Regards,
Justice.
On Sep 26, 2017 11:58 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:
Well, that shouldn't be a difficult thing like every other awards, but the African Wikimedia community will decide how to best do it.
Regards,
Isaac
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Justice Okai-Allotey < owulakpakpo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is actually a great idea but how are we going to measure who qualifies to be an African Wikimedian of the year. Are we going to use a popular vote process, I believe when we figure those things out we can move forward with that.
Best, Justice.
On Sep 26, 2017 11:47 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
Wiki Indaba 2018 in Tunisia is approaching, and I just thought of something like *African Wikimedian of the Year Award *to honor African Wikimedian who has contributed tremendously to Wikimedia projects and its growth in Africa. We can have other award category too and this would also makes the event more colorful. What do you think?
Regards,
Isaac Olatunde
African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
African-Wikimedians mailing listAfrican-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
Dear Isaac
Le 26/09/2017 à 17:23, Isaac Olatunde a écrit :
Hi Flo,
I see your points but I disagree that a merit award like this is against our values and the spirit of collaboration as a community/movement.
First, there is nothing wrong to honor any member of our community for their standout contributions. Even at National level, individuals get honoured for their contributions. I am aware that you were honored with "Knight" in the French National Order of Merit as Chair of an international organization (WMF). That's an achievement I am proud of. I do not see anything wrong honoring anyone for the works they do.
That is also an achievement I am proud of, be sure of that ;) and thank you for being proud of it as well ;) And there is nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with the awards distributed by Jimbo (god forbid ! I am super happy Felix got honored ! and prior to him our Women In Red ladies :) yeah yeah yeah !!!! )
The difference is that the first one was given by an external party (well, the French nation) and the second was given by an individual (our Jimbo). Those are identified entities with bounderies. Whilst "the community" ... uh... is a blob
I remember there were talks in the past, to celebrate the wikipedian of the month etc. And that never got anywhere.
Secondly, I don't see how gender would be a problem. It's a merit award and not to celebrate anyone because they are male or female or because we want to encourage a particular gender. The two winners of the Wikipedian of the year award in 2016 for example were women and nobody said they emerged because they are women. In 2012, User:Demmy, a Nigerian and a major contributor to Yoruba Wikipedia was honored with the same award and nobody said he was honored because he is a Nigerian. In 2017, Felix Nartey was honored with the award, I didn't hear anymore saying he received the award because he is an African or a Ghananian.
You did not understand me Isaac. I never said gender was wrong, nor origin was wrong (uh !). I am just saying... that in certain cultures, it is not easy to actually push oneself in the front.... the {{bebold}} attitude is not commonly shared accross the globe.
Lastly, the awardee may be nominated by someone who is familiar with their work and recommend them for the award. A panel of jury comprising of experience Wikipedian will review the nominees contributions, on-wiki and off-wiki and pick the person who merit the award.
Ok... anyway... I am just one person not super convinced. I tried to explain why but I am not sure I made myself understood.
_In any cases, feel free to move forward with others ! I am still interested by the conversation anyway ! and will be happy to hear other opinions and to even to be proven wrong. _
Flo, I apologize for citing your award. You are the only one I know who has received such award.
And my husband says "you never mention it, you never show it, you never use it, you never boast with it.". And he does not understand ;)
Flo
Regards,
Isaac.
On Sep 26, 2017 3:33 PM, "Florence Devouard" <anthere@anthere.org mailto:anthere@anthere.org> wrote:
I did not say I am opposed to it. I said I am not supportive of it. There are several reasons The first is that I consider that we should work in collaboration and celebrate our diversity and the various pieces that each of us bring. I do not think anything of what we do could have been done without the help of others. Celebrating one person instead of celebrating the team work seems odd/wrong to me. This is why I appreciate initiatives such as "the best projects of the year", which focus on an outcome and the team that made it happen rather than on an individual. Celebrating a "best team work" or "top 3 most amazing projects of the year" would be awesome to me. But celebrating one person... it seems to go against our commonly shared values. The second reason I am not supportive of it is the complexity of the voting process. Who would vote ? Which voting system would be used ? Would voting be public or private ? How to limit the impact of the vested interest ? In short... lot's of troubles. The third reason is related to the nomination process. Who will be allowed to nominate someone ? Which rules to be a nominee ? Would there be self nomination ? Would that be public ? Some cultures favor boosting (eg, american from USA) whilst in others, self nomination (or even the prospect of asking someone privately for a nomination) is just very hard to do. Beyond culture... even gender plays a role. Women tend to be less bold than men on such issues. Florence Le 26/09/2017 à 14:07, Isaac Olatunde a écrit :Thank you, Justice. @Flo, may I respectfully ask why you are opposing this? Regards, Isaac On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Justice Okai-Allotey <owulakpakpo@gmail.com <mailto:owulakpakpo@gmail.com>> wrote: Yeah precisely, let's all discuss if we want to go ahead I think it's a great initiative though . Regards, Justice. On Sep 26, 2017 11:58 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" <reachout2isaac@gmail.com <mailto:reachout2isaac@gmail.com>> wrote: Well, that shouldn't be a difficult thing like every other awards, but the African Wikimedia community will decide how to best do it. Regards, Isaac On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Justice Okai-Allotey <owulakpakpo@gmail.com <mailto:owulakpakpo@gmail.com>> wrote: This is actually a great idea but how are we going to measure who qualifies to be an African Wikimedian of the year. Are we going to use a popular vote process, I believe when we figure those things out we can move forward with that. Best, Justice. On Sep 26, 2017 11:47 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" <reachout2isaac@gmail.com <mailto:reachout2isaac@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi all, Wiki Indaba 2018 in Tunisia is approaching, and I just thought of something like *African Wikimedian of the Year Award *to honor African Wikimedian who has contributed tremendously to Wikimedia projects and its growth in Africa. We can have other award category too and this would also makes the event more colorful. What do you think? Regards, Isaac Olatunde _______________________________________________ African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians> _______________________________________________ African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians>
I agree with the arguments Florence presented.
If we want to make such an award at all, let us celebrate outcomes and teams rather than individuals.
A.
On Sep 26, 2017 18:29, "Florence Devouard" anthere@anthere.org wrote:
Dear Isaac
Le 26/09/2017 à 17:23, Isaac Olatunde a écrit :
Hi Flo,
I see your points but I disagree that a merit award like this is against our values and the spirit of collaboration as a community/movement.
First, there is nothing wrong to honor any member of our community for their standout contributions. Even at National level, individuals get honoured for their contributions. I am aware that you were honored with "Knight" in the French National Order of Merit as Chair of an international organization (WMF). That's an achievement I am proud of. I do not see anything wrong honoring anyone for the works they do.
That is also an achievement I am proud of, be sure of that ;) and thank you for being proud of it as well ;) And there is nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with the awards distributed by Jimbo (god forbid ! I am super happy Felix got honored ! and prior to him our Women In Red ladies :) yeah yeah yeah !!!! )
The difference is that the first one was given by an external party (well, the French nation) and the second was given by an individual (our Jimbo). Those are identified entities with bounderies. Whilst "the community" ... uh... is a blob
I remember there were talks in the past, to celebrate the wikipedian of the month etc. And that never got anywhere.
Secondly, I don't see how gender would be a problem. It's a merit award and not to celebrate anyone because they are male or female or because we want to encourage a particular gender. The two winners of the Wikipedian of the year award in 2016 for example were women and nobody said they emerged because they are women. In 2012, User:Demmy, a Nigerian and a major contributor to Yoruba Wikipedia was honored with the same award and nobody said he was honored because he is a Nigerian. In 2017, Felix Nartey was honored with the award, I didn't hear anymore saying he received the award because he is an African or a Ghananian.
You did not understand me Isaac. I never said gender was wrong, nor origin was wrong (uh !). I am just saying... that in certain cultures, it is not easy to actually push oneself in the front.... the {{bebold}} attitude is not commonly shared accross the globe.
Lastly, the awardee may be nominated by someone who is familiar with their work and recommend them for the award. A panel of jury comprising of experience Wikipedian will review the nominees contributions, on-wiki and off-wiki and pick the person who merit the award.
Ok... anyway... I am just one person not super convinced. I tried to explain why but I am not sure I made myself understood.
*In any cases, feel free to move forward with others ! I am still interested by the conversation anyway ! and will be happy to hear other opinions and to even to be proven wrong. *
Flo, I apologize for citing your award. You are the only one I know who has received such award.
And my husband says "you never mention it, you never show it, you never use it, you never boast with it.". And he does not understand ;)
Flo
Regards,
Isaac.
On Sep 26, 2017 3:33 PM, "Florence Devouard" anthere@anthere.org wrote:
I did not say I am opposed to it. I said I am not supportive of it.
There are several reasons
The first is that I consider that we should work in collaboration and celebrate our diversity and the various pieces that each of us bring. I do not think anything of what we do could have been done without the help of others. Celebrating one person instead of celebrating the team work seems odd/wrong to me. This is why I appreciate initiatives such as "the best projects of the year", which focus on an outcome and the team that made it happen rather than on an individual. Celebrating a "best team work" or "top 3 most amazing projects of the year" would be awesome to me. But celebrating one person... it seems to go against our commonly shared values.
The second reason I am not supportive of it is the complexity of the voting process. Who would vote ? Which voting system would be used ? Would voting be public or private ? How to limit the impact of the vested interest ? In short... lot's of troubles.
The third reason is related to the nomination process. Who will be allowed to nominate someone ? Which rules to be a nominee ? Would there be self nomination ? Would that be public ? Some cultures favor boosting (eg, american from USA) whilst in others, self nomination (or even the prospect of asking someone privately for a nomination) is just very hard to do. Beyond culture... even gender plays a role. Women tend to be less bold than men on such issues. Florence
Le 26/09/2017 à 14:07, Isaac Olatunde a écrit :
Thank you, Justice.
@Flo, may I respectfully ask why you are opposing this?
Regards,
Isaac
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Justice Okai-Allotey < owulakpakpo@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah precisely, let's all discuss if we want to go ahead I think it's a great initiative though .
Regards,
Justice.
On Sep 26, 2017 11:58 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:
Well, that shouldn't be a difficult thing like every other awards, but the African Wikimedia community will decide how to best do it.
Regards,
Isaac
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Justice Okai-Allotey < owulakpakpo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is actually a great idea but how are we going to measure who qualifies to be an African Wikimedian of the year. Are we going to use a popular vote process, I believe when we figure those things out we can move forward with that.
Best, Justice.
On Sep 26, 2017 11:47 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
Wiki Indaba 2018 in Tunisia is approaching, and I just thought of something like *African Wikimedian of the Year Award *to honor African Wikimedian who has contributed tremendously to Wikimedia projects and its growth in Africa. We can have other award category too and this would also makes the event more colorful. What do you think?
Regards,
Isaac Olatunde
African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
African-Wikimedians mailing listAfrican-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
Well, I concur with the idea of celebrating outcomes and team.
Thanks to Asaf for his input.
Regards,
Isaac.
On Sep 26, 2017 6:17 PM, "Asaf Bartov" abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
I agree with the arguments Florence presented.
If we want to make such an award at all, let us celebrate outcomes and teams rather than individuals.
A.
On Sep 26, 2017 18:29, "Florence Devouard" anthere@anthere.org wrote:
Dear Isaac
Le 26/09/2017 à 17:23, Isaac Olatunde a écrit :
Hi Flo,
I see your points but I disagree that a merit award like this is against our values and the spirit of collaboration as a community/movement.
First, there is nothing wrong to honor any member of our community for their standout contributions. Even at National level, individuals get honoured for their contributions. I am aware that you were honored with "Knight" in the French National Order of Merit as Chair of an international organization (WMF). That's an achievement I am proud of. I do not see anything wrong honoring anyone for the works they do.
That is also an achievement I am proud of, be sure of that ;) and thank you for being proud of it as well ;) And there is nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with the awards distributed by Jimbo (god forbid ! I am super happy Felix got honored ! and prior to him our Women In Red ladies :) yeah yeah yeah !!!! )
The difference is that the first one was given by an external party (well, the French nation) and the second was given by an individual (our Jimbo). Those are identified entities with bounderies. Whilst "the community" ... uh... is a blob
I remember there were talks in the past, to celebrate the wikipedian of the month etc. And that never got anywhere.
Secondly, I don't see how gender would be a problem. It's a merit award and not to celebrate anyone because they are male or female or because we want to encourage a particular gender. The two winners of the Wikipedian of the year award in 2016 for example were women and nobody said they emerged because they are women. In 2012, User:Demmy, a Nigerian and a major contributor to Yoruba Wikipedia was honored with the same award and nobody said he was honored because he is a Nigerian. In 2017, Felix Nartey was honored with the award, I didn't hear anymore saying he received the award because he is an African or a Ghananian.
You did not understand me Isaac. I never said gender was wrong, nor origin was wrong (uh !). I am just saying... that in certain cultures, it is not easy to actually push oneself in the front.... the {{bebold}} attitude is not commonly shared accross the globe.
Lastly, the awardee may be nominated by someone who is familiar with their work and recommend them for the award. A panel of jury comprising of experience Wikipedian will review the nominees contributions, on-wiki and off-wiki and pick the person who merit the award.
Ok... anyway... I am just one person not super convinced. I tried to explain why but I am not sure I made myself understood.
*In any cases, feel free to move forward with others ! I am still interested by the conversation anyway ! and will be happy to hear other opinions and to even to be proven wrong. *
Flo, I apologize for citing your award. You are the only one I know who has received such award.
And my husband says "you never mention it, you never show it, you never use it, you never boast with it.". And he does not understand ;)
Flo
Regards,
Isaac.
On Sep 26, 2017 3:33 PM, "Florence Devouard" anthere@anthere.org wrote:
I did not say I am opposed to it. I said I am not supportive of it.
There are several reasons
The first is that I consider that we should work in collaboration and celebrate our diversity and the various pieces that each of us bring. I do not think anything of what we do could have been done without the help of others. Celebrating one person instead of celebrating the team work seems odd/wrong to me. This is why I appreciate initiatives such as "the best projects of the year", which focus on an outcome and the team that made it happen rather than on an individual. Celebrating a "best team work" or "top 3 most amazing projects of the year" would be awesome to me. But celebrating one person... it seems to go against our commonly shared values.
The second reason I am not supportive of it is the complexity of the voting process. Who would vote ? Which voting system would be used ? Would voting be public or private ? How to limit the impact of the vested interest ? In short... lot's of troubles.
The third reason is related to the nomination process. Who will be allowed to nominate someone ? Which rules to be a nominee ? Would there be self nomination ? Would that be public ? Some cultures favor boosting (eg, american from USA) whilst in others, self nomination (or even the prospect of asking someone privately for a nomination) is just very hard to do. Beyond culture... even gender plays a role. Women tend to be less bold than men on such issues. Florence
Le 26/09/2017 à 14:07, Isaac Olatunde a écrit :
Thank you, Justice.
@Flo, may I respectfully ask why you are opposing this?
Regards,
Isaac
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Justice Okai-Allotey < owulakpakpo@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah precisely, let's all discuss if we want to go ahead I think it's a great initiative though .
Regards,
Justice.
On Sep 26, 2017 11:58 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:
Well, that shouldn't be a difficult thing like every other awards, but the African Wikimedia community will decide how to best do it.
Regards,
Isaac
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Justice Okai-Allotey < owulakpakpo@gmail.com> wrote:
This is actually a great idea but how are we going to measure who qualifies to be an African Wikimedian of the year. Are we going to use a popular vote process, I believe when we figure those things out we can move forward with that.
Best, Justice.
On Sep 26, 2017 11:47 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
Wiki Indaba 2018 in Tunisia is approaching, and I just thought of something like *African Wikimedian of the Year Award *to honor African Wikimedian who has contributed tremendously to Wikimedia projects and its growth in Africa. We can have other award category too and this would also makes the event more colorful. What do you think?
Regards,
Isaac Olatunde
African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
African-Wikimedians mailing listAfrican-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
_______________________________________________ African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org