Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics
you'd like to schedule
there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?
Lodewijk
2016-07-06 19:28 GMT+02:00 Sydney Poore <sydney.poore(a)gmail.com>om>:
As Pharos says, my understanding also from
discussions was that North
Americans were planning to have a pre-conference or post conference at
Wikimanina 2017.
Sydney
Sydney Poore
User:FloNight
Wiki Project Med Foundation
WikiWomen's User Group
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/sydney.e.poore
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Pharos <pharosofalexandria(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Yes, we were thinking more along the lines of an expanded
> preconference with greater regional opportunities, rather than a separate
> track during the actual Wikimania.
>
> Thanks,
> Pharos
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:11 PM, phoebe ayers <phoebe.ayers(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule
>> for meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including
>> those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like
>> building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing
>> NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
>>
>> We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think
>> we can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup.
>> Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic
>> tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for
>> preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to
>> librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it
>> in the past).
>>
>> (Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get
>> rid of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have
>> panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the
>> schedule! :)
>>
>> -- Phoebe
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia <leila(a)wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Pine,
>>>
>>> Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is
>>> co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main
>>> conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and
>>> WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last
>>> couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is
concerned
>>> about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can
>>> benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling
>>> events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not
>>> scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America
>>> and the other a general/global event.
>>>
>>> This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the
>>> cost and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you
>>> to consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Leila
>>>
>>> Leila Zia
>>> Research Scientist
>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk <
>>> lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Pine,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify
>>>> a topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North
American
>>>> WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the
programme
>>>> at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And
whatever
>>>> you do, it will be.
>>>>
>>>> The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special
>>>> 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly
formal and
>>>> separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention,
and I
>>>> wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track',
'glam track' etc.
>>>> Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam,
>>>> Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.
>>>>
>>>> Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than
grouping
>>>> topics that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North
>>>> Americans can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the
opposite is
>>>> true) and 2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations
>>>> (which I also think would be quite untrue).
>>>>
>>>> The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan
>>>> of rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless
you
>>>> have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have
>>>> three presentations about education grouped together where they come
from
>>>> different regions, with different approaches than to have three
>>>> presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped
together.
>>>> I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region
-
>>>> and it would be without precedent (I think).
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Lodewijk
>>>>
>>>> 2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com>om>:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including
>>>>> French and Spanish).
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is
>>>>> that otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served
this
>>>>> purpose. I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to
attend
>>>>> tracks on subjects other than geographic interest (technology,
research,
>>>>> GLAM, STEM, law, education, outreach, community health, and
governance come
>>>>> to mind), so there will be substantial benefit in effectively
co-locating
>>>>> the conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a
net
>>>>> positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would
otherwise
>>>>> be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could
instead
>>>>> be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in
Montreal,
>>>>> which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at
Wikimania,
>>>>> and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and
venue
>>>>> for a separate conference with separate expenses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pine
>>>>> On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk"
<lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey pine,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence
>>>>>> of regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania.
When
>>>>>> Wikimania is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and
when it's in
>>>>>> Europe, more Europeans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to
the
>>>>>> best of my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which
were
>>>>>> separate for very practical reasons (translations). 2)
type-of-session
>>>>>> tracks - which again are very practical (different needs for a
discussion
>>>>>> than for a presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was
often
>>>>>> organised like a type of side conference (with the US govt in
2012, with
>>>>>> WikiSym and the hackathon).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American
>>>>>> regional and local subjects' would require such track and
even more why it
>>>>>> would require a special committee. It will find its way in the
programme,
>>>>>> and it's not like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics
per se. Why try to
>>>>>> separate it from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no
big fan of
>>>>>> splitting up the programme into smaller pieces too much - it
leaves too
>>>>>> much opportunity for good proposals to fall between the cracks
and get
>>>>>> lost. And it gets confusing easily to the participants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but
>>>>>> I guess that'll be of little use to you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Lodewijk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com>om>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in
>>>>>>> particular),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that
WikiConference
>>>>>>> North America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in
Montreal. This
>>>>>>> would likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total
cost, in terms of
>>>>>>> both time and money, for what would otherwise be separate
conferences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would
be
>>>>>>> willing and able to have some tracks at that conference
dedicated to North
>>>>>>> American regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by
a dedicated
>>>>>>> North America program committee. I foresee a modest increase
in attendance
>>>>>>> at Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs,
if we can make
>>>>>>> what would otherwise be separate conferences happen
harmoniously.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pine
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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