Independant from what? It's certainly true I have a scholarly/academic bias, but this is why we use "reliable sources". "Alleged threats of the Turkish government"? I've no idea what this refers to. Something like what http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrant_Dink this guy went through? If you're interested in the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia, there's already an article on it - I suppose that the genocide spawned this is probably worth mentioning, but the article's not topshape (a common problem in articles plagued by POV warriors). Of course, ASALA is linked to in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-Armenian_Genocide_timeline which may well be a more appropriate place to discuss it. Not surprisingly what's probably the second most studied genocide in history has a lot of daughter articles.
We're not talking about passing judgement on history. We're talking about accurately reporting the facts as they're currently understood by the experts on the subject. The holocaust gets mentioned because it's the closest historical parallel - a state organised genocide with near universal recognition as such.
Unless by "independant review" you mean "review by people who're uninformed on the subject" independant review will come to the same conclusion. The number of people pushing the fringe position is small, and the literature on the subject is unambigious.
In any event, although it's clear that White Cat's opinion is already chisel'd in stone, I'd urge any spectators to review the source material before forming any conclusions.
Cheers WilyD
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:03 PM, White Cat wikipedia.kawaii.neko@gmail.com wrote:
It isn't unheard of for people to completely disregard the views of the other side on controversial topics which seems to be what is happening here...
I don't know about the alleged threats of the Turkish Government... If such exists I am sure it can be easily sourced - would make a fine article.
What I do know about is attacks by ASALA which committed various acts of assassinations and bombings throughout Europe, the US and Middle East. If one side is going as far as bombing civilians and assassinating diplomats and their families to get their case accepted, I am sure they would have also engaged in misinformation. Of course ASALA is not mentioned once in the article. Can we completely disregard ASALA activity as a minority opinion?
Wikipedia does not pass judgement on history. We write about what is sourced not what is *right*. I see the constant revival of the holocaust as a sign of Godwin's law at work.
Here I was talking about getting uninvolved people reviewing the topic... Thank you for verifying such a need. Article is in serious need of independent review.
- White CatOn Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 6:38 PM, Wily D wilydoppelganger@gmail.com wrote:
Err, in the case the scholars of the subject made a collective statement that it was a genocide, rather than individually. You can read their statement http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm here if you're so inclined.
But I've done some research myself, specifically since I got involved in the article by sourcing various claims (which is really my editing strength), and it's not particularly contraversial academically - I'll refer this statement by historians Torben Jorgensen and Matthias Bjornlund
When it comes to the historical reality of the Armenian genocide, there is no "Armenian" or "Turkish" side of the "question," any more than there is a "Jewish" or a "German" side of the historical reality of the Holocaust: There is a scientific side, and an unscientific side acknowledgment or denial. In the case of the denial of the Armenian genocide, it is even founded on a massive effort of falsification, distortion, cleansing of archives, and direct threats initiated or supported by the Turkish state, making any "dialogue" with Turkish deniers highly problematic."
Feel free to research the matter yourself, more constructive comments can be made by someone who's well informed than someone who's ill-informed.
Cheers WilyD
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