No, you don't necessarily have to hide who you are. In fact, I hear they're more tolerable of homosexuality in tourists because they need the tourism money. My point is, it's not a matter of repressing who you are as a person. It's about lying to Egyptian officials where applicable. :)

On 10/11/07, Jason Safoutin jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org wrote:

Huh? So we should hide who we are? We should cover up our acts as a human being? Get real.

James Hare wrote:

...

You're saying it as though gayness is naturally radiated out of a gay man's orifices.

On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* < jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org> wrote:

So I see...we (homosexuals etc) have to hide who we are and what
we are
proud of...so homosexuals don't get hurt or arrested.
Wonderful...I will
make sure to bring a mask or 2 to conceal anything that might
suggest I
am gay. Because thats what it feels like I ans any other
homosexual has
to do to make this trip work. Thats wrong, unfair and it
discrimination.

I am also not happy with the fact that this is sounding more and

more

...

like a political conference than anything and thats not right. If

you

...

want to make Wikimania political, then don't get involved. And then

to

...

have Jimbo make a speech title that can get a lot into a lot of
trouble....take the political mess somewhere else. This is a media
conference, not an election.

Anyone can go and no one should have to be afraid of their own

safety.

...

Wikimania should be something for everyone, not the elite. Stop this
discrimination.

Jason Safoutin

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:

Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>

...

http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>

---

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

Jason,

The decision for 2008 has been made. If you feel uncomfortable attending the conference in Egypt then feel free to stay away -- I am sure that we'd rather have seen you there, but nobody is forcing anyone to go.

I am sure that your point about paying closer attention to the country's laws and regulations related to discrimination has been noted, and I'm sure that the Wikimania 2009 jury will pay even more attention to this point next time they vote.

However, please do not offend the rest of the people on this list who have no problem with the city selection process by making it seem that the process did not take your opinion into account. The bidding process was well publicized; the list of cities making their bids has been available for quite a while. There were many opportunities for you and anyone else to get involved and argue for or against particular locations. In the future, if you feel so strongly, I recommend finding the best point in the process to bring up your opinions and arguments -- namely, before the decision has been made.

Wikimedia's conferences are not meant to be places where only people who share your particular values attend. There are plenty of people in different parts of the world who would not want to attend conferences in the U.S. due to some commonly held perceptions of its treatment of Muslims or people who look like Arabs, and the risks that this carries to visitors. In fact, there are cases where people try to hide their "Arab look" in order to avoid harassment in the U.S.

There are advantages and disadvantages to every location. The jury made its decision after careful considerations given the information they had at their disposal. Please find a way to accept this decision.

-ilya

On 10/11/07, Jason Safoutin jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org wrote:

But they are so happy about gay tourism that they arrest nearly 70 men for being gay and having sex with other men? That was in August. So lets lie to a government that will put us in prison just for that...boy the charges are racking up, and I didn't even go there yet.

Jason

James Hare wrote:

...

No, you don't necessarily have to hide who you are. In fact, I hear they're more tolerable of homosexuality in tourists because they need the tourism money. My point is, it's not a matter of repressing who you are as a person. It's about lying to Egyptian officials where applicable. :)

On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org> wrote:

Huh? So we should hide who we are? We should cover up our acts as a
human being? Get real.

James Hare wrote:
> You're saying it as though gayness is naturally radiated out of
a gay
> man's orifices.
>
> On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* < jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
> <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>> wrote:
>
>     So I see...we (homosexuals etc) have to hide who we are and what
>     we are
>     proud of...so homosexuals don't get hurt or arrested.
>     Wonderful...I will
>     make sure to bring a mask or 2 to conceal anything that might
>     suggest I
>     am gay. Because thats what it feels like I ans any other
>     homosexual has
>     to do to make this trip work. Thats wrong, unfair and it
>     discrimination.
>
>     I am also not happy with the fact that this is sounding more
and more
>     like a political conference than anything and thats not
right. If you
>     want to make Wikimania political, then don't get involved.
And then to
>     have Jimbo make a speech title that can get a lot into a lot of
>     trouble....take the political mess somewhere else. This is a
media
>     conference, not an election.
>
>     Anyone can go and no one should have to be afraid of their
own safety.
>     Wikimania should be something for everyone, not the elite.
Stop this
>     discrimination.
>
>     Jason Safoutin
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Wikinews-l mailing list
>     Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>     http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>     <http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>

---

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

For the record, the jury WAS asked about Egypt and LGBT rights

On 10/11/07, Jason Safoutin jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org wrote:

The jury should have done that this time around and the time before. This is not rocket science and it is very well known how the Egyptian government treats their people etc. If the jury cannot look past the glitter and fame, then they need not be the decision makers. We have just as muchh right as anyone else to be there and we should not have to feel unwanted or discriminated against because the decision is final. It is an outrage and it is *offensive* to people like me who are gay more than speaking out against this.

We have no effect on the decision and its not our decision to make. It seems that they did not make this decision on available information because if they did they would have seen how brutal the regime is and its easy to find...just google Egypt gay and human rights.

Ilya Haykinson wrote:

...

Jason,

The decision for 2008 has been made. If you feel uncomfortable attending the conference in Egypt then feel free to stay away -- I am sure that we'd rather have seen you there, but nobody is forcing anyone to go.

I am sure that your point about paying closer attention to the country's laws and regulations related to discrimination has been noted, and I'm sure that the Wikimania 2009 jury will pay even more attention to this point next time they vote.

However, please do not offend the rest of the people on this list who have no problem with the city selection process by making it seem that the process did not take your opinion into account. The bidding process was well publicized; the list of cities making their bids has been available for quite a while. There were many opportunities for you and anyone else to get involved and argue for or against particular locations. In the future, if you feel so strongly, I recommend finding the best point in the process to bring up your opinions and arguments -- namely, before the decision has been made.

Wikimedia's conferences are not meant to be places where only people who share your particular values attend. There are plenty of people in different parts of the world who would not want to attend conferences in the U.S. due to some commonly held perceptions of its treatment of Muslims or people who look like Arabs, and the risks that this carries to visitors. In fact, there are cases where people try to hide their "Arab look" in order to avoid harassment in the U.S.

There are advantages and disadvantages to every location. The jury made its decision after careful considerations given the information they had at their disposal. Please find a way to accept this decision.

-ilya

On 10/11/07, Jason Safoutin jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org wrote:

...

But they are so happy about gay tourism that they arrest nearly 70 men for being gay and having sex with other men? That was in August. So

lets

...

...

lie to a government that will put us in prison just for that...boy the charges are racking up, and I didn't even go there yet.

Jason

James Hare wrote:

...

No, you don't necessarily have to hide who you are. In fact, I hear they're more tolerable of homosexuality in tourists because they need the tourism money. My point is, it's not a matter of repressing who you are as a person. It's about lying to Egyptian officials where applicable. :)

On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org> wrote:

Huh? So we should hide who we are? We should cover up our acts as

a

...

...

...

human being? Get real.

James Hare wrote:
> You're saying it as though gayness is naturally radiated out of
a gay
> man's orifices.
>
> On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* < jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
> <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>> wrote:
>
>     So I see...we (homosexuals etc) have to hide who we are and

what

...

...

...

>     we are
>     proud of...so homosexuals don't get hurt or arrested.
>     Wonderful...I will
>     make sure to bring a mask or 2 to conceal anything that

might

...

...

...

>     suggest I
>     am gay. Because thats what it feels like I ans any other
>     homosexual has
>     to do to make this trip work. Thats wrong, unfair and it
>     discrimination.
>
>     I am also not happy with the fact that this is sounding more
and more
>     like a political conference than anything and thats not
right. If you
>     want to make Wikimania political, then don't get involved.
And then to
>     have Jimbo make a speech title that can get a lot into a lot

of

...

...

...

>     trouble....take the political mess somewhere else. This is a
media
>     conference, not an election.
>
>     Anyone can go and no one should have to be afraid of their
own safety.
>     Wikimania should be something for everyone, not the elite.
Stop this
>     discrimination.
>
>     Jason Safoutin
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Wikinews-l mailing list
>     Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>     http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>     <http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>
>
>

---

...

...

...

>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:

Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>

...

...

...

http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>

---

...

...

...

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

I think it's you who ignored the whole bidding process until the decision is made and announced.

The 2008 bid starts right after the 2007 bid is final last September. It's a year ago and Alexandria showed their interests on Wikimania since 2006 (actually they also joined the 2007 bid and they continued to join the 2008 bid because they lose in the 2007 bid).

IMHO, if you really care about Wikimania, you should have aware of this and should argue before the decision is made.

Ted (Hsiang-Tai)

From: Jason Safoutin

Then it seems they ignored it or at lest decided that they didn't care enough to factor in those rights or lack there of.

James Hare wrote:

...

For the record, the jury WAS asked about Egypt and LGBT rights

On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org> wrote:

The jury should have done that this time around and the time before.
This is not rocket science and it is very well known how the

Egyptian

...

government treats their people etc. If the jury cannot look past the
glitter and fame, then they need not be the decision makers. We have
just as muchh right as anyone else to be there and we should not
have to
feel unwanted or discriminated against because the decision is
final. It
is an outrage and it is *offensive* to people like me who are gay

more

...

than speaking out against this.

We have no effect on the decision and its not our decision to
make. It
seems that they did not make this decision on available information
because if they did they would have seen how brutal the regime is

and

...

its easy to find...just google Egypt gay and human rights.

Ilya Haykinson wrote:
> Jason,
>
> The decision for 2008 has been made.  If you feel uncomfortable
> attending the conference in Egypt then feel free to stay away --
I am
> sure that we'd rather have seen you there, but nobody is forcing
> anyone to go.
>
> I am sure that your point about paying closer attention to the
> country's laws and regulations  related to discrimination has been
> noted, and I'm sure that the Wikimania 2009 jury will pay even

more

...

> attention to this point next time they vote.
>
> However, please do not offend the rest of the people on this
list who
> have no problem with the city selection process by making it
seem that
> the process did not take your opinion into account.  The bidding
> process was well publicized; the list of cities making their
bids has
> been available for quite a while.  There were many opportunities
for
> you and anyone else to get involved and argue for or against
> particular locations.   In the future, if you feel so strongly, I
> recommend finding the best point in the process to bring up your
> opinions and arguments -- namely, before the decision has been
made.
>
> Wikimedia's conferences are not meant to be places where only

people

...

> who share your particular values attend.  There are plenty of

people

...

> in different parts of the world who would not want to attend
> conferences in the U.S. due to some commonly held perceptions of

its

...

> treatment of Muslims or people who look like Arabs, and the
risks that
> this carries to visitors.  In fact, there are cases where people
try
> to hide their "Arab look" in order to avoid harassment in the U.S.
>
> There are advantages and disadvantages to every location.  The

jury

...

> made its decision after careful considerations given the
information
> they had at their disposal. Please find a way to accept this
decision.
>
> -ilya
>
> On 10/11/07, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>> wrote:
>
>> But they are so happy about gay tourism that they arrest nearly
70 men
>> for being gay and having sex with other men? That was in
August. So lets
>> lie to a government that will put us in prison just for
that...boy the
>> charges are racking up, and I didn't even go there yet.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> James Hare wrote:
>>
>>> No, you don't necessarily have to hide who you are. In fact, I
hear
>>> they're more tolerable of homosexuality in tourists because
they need
>>> the tourism money. My point is, it's not a matter of
repressing who
>>> you are as a person. It's about lying to Egyptian officials

where

...

>>> applicable. :)
>>>
>>> On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
>>> <mailto: jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Huh? So we should hide who we are? We should cover up our
acts as a
>>>     human being? Get real.
>>>
>>>     James Hare wrote:
>>>     > You're saying it as though gayness is naturally radiated
out of
>>>     a gay
>>>     > man's orifices.
>>>     >
>>>     > On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <
jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org

mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org

...

>>>     <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>
>>>     > <mailto: jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
>>>     <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>>> wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     >     So I see...we (homosexuals etc) have to hide who we
are and what
>>>     >     we are
>>>     >     proud of...so homosexuals don't get hurt or arrested.
>>>     >     Wonderful...I will
>>>     >     make sure to bring a mask or 2 to conceal anything
that might
>>>     >     suggest I
>>>     >     am gay. Because thats what it feels like I ans any
other
>>>     >     homosexual has
>>>     >     to do to make this trip work. Thats wrong, unfair and

it

...

>>>     >     discrimination.
>>>     >
>>>     >     I am also not happy with the fact that this is
sounding more
>>>     and more
>>>     >     like a political conference than anything and thats

not

...

>>>     right. If you
>>>     >     want to make Wikimania political, then don't get
involved.
>>>     And then to
>>>     >     have Jimbo make a speech title that can get a lot
into a lot of
>>>     >     trouble....take the political mess somewhere else.
This is a
>>>     media
>>>     >     conference, not an election.
>>>     >
>>>     >     Anyone can go and no one should have to be afraid of
their
>>>     own safety.
>>>     >     Wikimania should be something for everyone, not the
elite.
>>>     Stop this
>>>     >     discrimination.
>>>     >
>>>     >     Jason Safoutin
>>>     >
>>>     >

---

...

>>>     >     Wikinews-l mailing list
>>>     >     Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>     <mailto: Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>>>     <mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>     <mailto: Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>>
>>>     >     http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>>     >     <
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

...

>>>     >
>>>     > _______________________________________________
>>>     > Wikinews-l mailing list
>>>     > Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>     <mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>>>     > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>>     >
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     Wikinews-l mailing list
>>>     Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>>>     http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>>     <http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>>>
>>>
>>>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

...

>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>>> Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org

mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org

...

http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

---

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

If they did, then I really don't think this controversy would be happening.

Casey Brown wrote:

On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org> wrote:

The jury should have done that this time around and the time before.

They have expressly stated that they already have.

This is not rocket science and it is very well known how the Egyptian
government treats their people etc. If the jury cannot look past the
glitter and fame, 

What glitter and fame?

then they need not be the decision makers. 

I know most of the people on the jury to be very good decision-makers and very hard-working.

We have
just as muchh right as anyone else to be there

No one has said that you don't have the same rights.

and we should not have to
feel unwanted or discriminated against because the decision is final. 

But the decision *is* final, these discussions should have been brought up at this depth *during* the bidding procedure, not after it was announced. You could have e-mailed the jury, posted to this list, or posted on the talk page.

It
is an outrage and it is *offensive* to people like me who are gay more
than speaking out against this.

We have no effect on the decision and its not our decision to make. It
seems that they did not make this decision on available information

They most definitely did, but it's everything must be taken into account.

because if they did they would have seen how brutal the regime is and
its easy to find...just google Egypt gay and human rights.

Ilya Haykinson wrote:
> Jason,
>
> The decision for 2008 has been made.  If you feel uncomfortable
> attending the conference in Egypt then feel free to stay away --
I am
> sure that we'd rather have seen you there, but nobody is forcing
> anyone to go.
>
> I am sure that your point about paying closer attention to the
> country's laws and regulations  related to discrimination has been
> noted, and I'm sure that the Wikimania 2009 jury will pay even more
> attention to this point next time they vote.
>
> However, please do not offend the rest of the people on this
list who
> have no problem with the city selection process by making it
seem that
> the process did not take your opinion into account.  The bidding
> process was well publicized; the list of cities making their
bids has
> been available for quite a while.  There were many opportunities
for
> you and anyone else to get involved and argue for or against
> particular locations.   In the future, if you feel so strongly, I
> recommend finding the best point in the process to bring up your
> opinions and arguments -- namely, before the decision has been
made.
>
> Wikimedia's conferences are not meant to be places where only people
> who share your particular values attend.  There are plenty of people
> in different parts of the world who would not want to attend
> conferences in the U.S. due to some commonly held perceptions of its
> treatment of Muslims or people who look like Arabs, and the
risks that
> this carries to visitors.  In fact, there are cases where people
try
> to hide their "Arab look" in order to avoid harassment in the U.S.
>
> There are advantages and disadvantages to every location.  The jury
> made its decision after careful considerations given the
information
> they had at their disposal. Please find a way to accept this
decision.
>
> -ilya
>
> On 10/11/07, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>> wrote:
>
>> But they are so happy about gay tourism that they arrest nearly
70 men
>> for being gay and having sex with other men? That was in
August. So lets
>> lie to a government that will put us in prison just for
that...boy the
>> charges are racking up, and I didn't even go there yet.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> James Hare wrote:
>>
>>> No, you don't necessarily have to hide who you are. In fact, I
hear
>>> they're more tolerable of homosexuality in tourists because
they need
>>> the tourism money. My point is, it's not a matter of
repressing who
>>> you are as a person. It's about lying to Egyptian officials where
>>> applicable. :)
>>>
>>> On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
>>> <mailto: jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Huh? So we should hide who we are? We should cover up our
acts as a
>>>     human being? Get real.
>>>
>>>     James Hare wrote:
>>>     > You're saying it as though gayness is naturally radiated
out of
>>>     a gay
>>>     > man's orifices.
>>>     >
>>>     > On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <
jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
>>>     <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>
>>>     > <mailto: jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
>>>     <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
<mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>>> wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     >     So I see...we (homosexuals etc) have to hide who we
are and what
>>>     >     we are
>>>     >     proud of...so homosexuals don't get hurt or arrested.
>>>     >     Wonderful...I will
>>>     >     make sure to bring a mask or 2 to conceal anything
that might
>>>     >     suggest I
>>>     >     am gay. Because thats what it feels like I ans any
other
>>>     >     homosexual has
>>>     >     to do to make this trip work. Thats wrong, unfair and it
>>>     >     discrimination.
>>>     >
>>>     >     I am also not happy with the fact that this is
sounding more
>>>     and more
>>>     >     like a political conference than anything and thats not
>>>     right. If you
>>>     >     want to make Wikimania political, then don't get
involved.
>>>     And then to
>>>     >     have Jimbo make a speech title that can get a lot
into a lot of
>>>     >     trouble....take the political mess somewhere else.
This is a
>>>     media
>>>     >     conference, not an election.
>>>     >
>>>     >     Anyone can go and no one should have to be afraid of
their
>>>     own safety.
>>>     >     Wikimania should be something for everyone, not the
elite.
>>>     Stop this
>>>     >     discrimination.
>>>     >
>>>     >     Jason Safoutin
>>>     >
>>>     >     _______________________________________________
>>>     >     Wikinews-l mailing list
>>>     >     Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>     <mailto: Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>>>     <mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>     <mailto: Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>>
>>>     >     http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>>     >     <
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>    
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>     >
>>>     > _______________________________________________
>>>     > Wikinews-l mailing list
>>>     > Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>     <mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>>>     > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>>     >
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     Wikinews-l mailing list
>>>     Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>>>     http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>>     <http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>>>
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>>> Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023

---

Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

---

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

Jason, hope this doesn't make me sound like a homophobic, intolerant asshole (which I'm not), but perhaps check this website out:

http://www.gayegypt.com/

On 10/11/07, Oldak Quill oldakquill@gmail.com wrote:

On 11/10/2007, Casey Brown cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com wrote:

...

...

and we should not have to feel unwanted or discriminated against because the decision is final.

But the decision *is* final, these discussions should have been brought

up

...

at this depth *during* the bidding procedure, not after it was

announced.

...

You could have e-mailed the jury, posted to this list, or posted on the

talk

...

page.

It's possible that many of those contending Alexandra didn't pay notice to the Wikimania bidding process before reading the announcement. Is that their fault or the fault in the way that meta issues are communicated to Wikimedia participants?

Regardless, the decision has been made, but this discussion does serve a purpose. These issues will be taken into account in future bidding procedures.

-- Oldak Quill (oldakquill@gmail.com)

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

Ah. ;(

On 10/11/07, Mark Ryan ultrablue@gmail.com wrote:

On 12/10/2007, Patrick Mannion patrick.mannion@gmail.com wrote:

...

Jason, hope this doesn't make me sound like a homophobic, intolerant

asshole

...

(which I'm not), but perhaps check this website out:

http://www.gayegypt.com/

That's apparently the only remaining major Gay-themed Egyptian website. Their government shut down all the others, and the only reason this one is still running is that it's based in England or the US. I think I read that in our "LGBT rights in Egypt" article, though I may be wrong.

~Mark Ryan

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

On 11/10/2007, Ilya Haykinson haykinson@gmail.com wrote:

Wikimedia's conferences are not meant to be places where only people who share your particular values attend. There are plenty of people in different parts of the world who would not want to attend conferences in the U.S. due to some commonly held perceptions of its treatment of Muslims or people who look like Arabs, and the risks that this carries to visitors. In fact, there are cases where people try to hide their "Arab look" in order to avoid harassment in the U.S.

I don't think anyone has suggested that Wikimedia's conferences are meant to be places where only people who share your particular values attend. The point is that Wikimedia's conferences are meant to be places where people of many values and lifestyles are free to attend without having to hide themselves.

To be honest, I'm sure you could get into trouble for hitting on every local female too. ;-)

On 10/11/07, Brian McNeil brian.mcneil@wikinewsie.org wrote:

Jason Safoutin wrote:

"Huh? So we should hide who we are? We should cover up our acts as a human being? Get real."

The restrictions you have to put up with in Egypt are simple to deal with. You don't hit on every local male, you don't go out of your way to show you are a gay person, and the fact that you keep your sexuality private isn't related to it being Egypt.

---

Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

Casey Brown wrote:

To be honest, I'm sure you could get into trouble for hitting on every

local female too. ;-)

Heh, I'm sure - but being heterosexual I'd probably derive more fun from that before I was arrested. As a tourist I'd probably get told to "behave myself" if I was hitting on female guides. However being openly gay and hitting on a male guide could land them in trouble.