On 10/11/07, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org> wrote:
The jury should have done that this time around and the time before.
They have expressly stated that they already have.
This is not rocket science and it is very well known how the Egyptian
government treats their people etc. If the jury cannot look past the
glitter and fame,
What glitter and fame?
then they need not be the decision makers.
I know most of the people on the jury to be very good decision-makers and very hard-working.
We have
just as muchh right as anyone else to be there
No one has said that you don't have the same rights.
and we should not have to
feel unwanted or discriminated against because the decision is final.
But the decision *is* final, these discussions should have been brought up at this depth *during* the bidding procedure, not after it was announced. You could have e-mailed the jury, posted to this list, or posted on the talk page.
It
is an outrage and it is *offensive* to people like me who are gay more
than speaking out against this.
We have no effect on the decision and its not our decision to make. It
seems that they did not make this decision on available information
They most definitely did, but it's everything must be taken into account.
because if they did they would have seen how brutal the regime is and
its easy to find...just google Egypt gay and human rights.
Ilya Haykinson wrote:
> Jason,
>
> The decision for 2008 has been made. If you feel uncomfortable
> attending the conference in Egypt then feel free to stay away -- I am
> sure that we'd rather have seen you there, but nobody is forcing
> anyone to go.
>
> I am sure that your point about paying closer attention to the
> country's laws and regulations related to discrimination has been
> noted, and I'm sure that the Wikimania 2009 jury will pay even more
> attention to this point next time they vote.
>
> However, please do not offend the rest of the people on this list who
> have no problem with the city selection process by making it seem that
> the process did not take your opinion into account. The bidding
> process was well publicized; the list of cities making their bids has
> been available for quite a while. There were many opportunities for
> you and anyone else to get involved and argue for or against
> particular locations. In the future, if you feel so strongly, I
> recommend finding the best point in the process to bring up your
> opinions and arguments -- namely, before the decision has been made.
>
> Wikimedia's conferences are not meant to be places where only people
> who share your particular values attend. There are plenty of people
> in different parts of the world who would not want to attend
> conferences in the U.S. due to some commonly held perceptions of its
> treatment of Muslims or people who look like Arabs, and the risks that
> this carries to visitors. In fact, there are cases where people try
> to hide their "Arab look" in order to avoid harassment in the U.S.
>
> There are advantages and disadvantages to every location. The jury
> made its decision after careful considerations given the information
> they had at their disposal. Please find a way to accept this decision.
>
> -ilya
>
> On 10/11/07, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
> wrote:
>
>> But they are so happy about gay tourism that they arrest nearly 70 men
>> for being gay and having sex with other men? That was in August. So lets
>> lie to a government that will put us in prison just for that...boy the
>> charges are racking up, and I didn't even go there yet.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> James Hare wrote:
>>
>>> No, you don't necessarily have to hide who you are. In fact, I hear
>>> they're more tolerable of homosexuality in tourists because they need
>>> the tourism money. My point is, it's not a matter of repressing who
>>> you are as a person. It's about lying to Egyptian officials where
>>> applicable. :)
>>>
>>> On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
>>> <mailto:
jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Huh? So we should hide who we are? We should cover up our acts as a
>>> human being? Get real.
>>>
>>> James Hare wrote:
>>> > You're saying it as though gayness is naturally radiated out of
>>> a gay
>>> > man's orifices.
>>> >
>>> > On 10/11/07, *Jason Safoutin* <
jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
>>> <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>
>>> > <mailto:
jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org
>>> <mailto:jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > So I see...we (homosexuals etc) have to hide who we are and what
>>> > we are
>>> > proud of...so homosexuals don't get hurt or arrested.
>>> > Wonderful...I will
>>> > make sure to bring a mask or 2 to conceal anything that might
>>> > suggest I
>>> > am gay. Because thats what it feels like I ans any other
>>> > homosexual has
>>> > to do to make this trip work. Thats wrong, unfair and it
>>> > discrimination.
>>> >
>>> > I am also not happy with the fact that this is sounding more
>>> and more
>>> > like a political conference than anything and thats not
>>> right. If you
>>> > want to make Wikimania political, then don't get involved.
>>> And then to
>>> > have Jimbo make a speech title that can get a lot into a lot of
>>> > trouble....take the political mess somewhere else. This is a
>>> media
>>> > conference, not an election.
>>> >
>>> > Anyone can go and no one should have to be afraid of their
>>> own safety.
>>> > Wikimania should be something for everyone, not the elite.
>>> Stop this
>>> > discrimination.
>>> >
>>> > Jason Safoutin
>>> >
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