Sanskrit Bharathi volunteers were generally keen on our Sanskrit Wikipedia. Arunram and others have conducted Wiki academies for them. Probably good idea to take them more into confidence with our movement.
While Kerala & TN governments have chosen to go with the Wikipedia, it is sad that Karnataka government is always trying to reinvent the wheel. May be we are not reaching out with them properly.
It may be a good idea to set up a Chapter task force for government liaisons and policy making, which includes those folks who have done these kind of stuff successfully more than those who have contacts.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Naveen B M naveenbm@gmail.com wrote:
From the state budget speech here ( http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm), it appears this is a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi
- To develop Sanskrit Wikipedia, Rs 1 crore would be provided as
a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi.
Naveen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.comwrote:
Just checked with my sources in the government - and what I hear is that the allocated funds *isn't* for Sanskrit Wikipedia, but a project "on the lines" of Sanskrit Wikipedia, but perhaps with editing control.
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Prashanth NS prashanth.ns@gmail.comwrote:
Yea. I remember that announcement 2 years back and then it got converted into an internal project.
But, a good opportunity for advocacy here. Perhaps some chapter members should meet the department officials and try and get co-opted into the decision-making process. Often, it is lack of information and trust that scares them. Unlike 2 years, back with the chapter in place and most of us quite well networked, we should get involved closely and see if we can get them to invest in improving the sanskrit and kananda wikis.
The government usually prefers a project with editing control rather than one without any direct control over content decisions made.
-- Hari Prasad Nadig
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Tinu, with the efforts that you and your team takes, I really doubt if it is the problem of increasing more initiatives.
It is more to do with no direction and pocket the money in name of starting something new.
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
-----Original Message----- From: CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com Sender: wikimediaindia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:34:17 To: Wikimedia India Community listwikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Reply-To: Wikimedia India Community list wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: Bangalore Wikimedia listWikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
_______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Let us hope that this is not such a one.
What if this is actually meant for our Sanskrit Wikipedia ? Or possibly we convince them it is worth for developing the existing Sanskrit Wikipedia ?
Let us not jump into conclusions and let us hear from the person who have been invited today by Arunram.
( Another reason why people should be attending the Bangalore meetup today ;D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MBL30 )
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:58 AM, mokshjuneja@gmail.com wrote:
Tinu, with the efforts that you and your team takes, I really doubt if it is the problem of increasing more initiatives.
It is more to do with no direction and pocket the money in name of starting something new.
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
-----Original Message----- From: CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com Sender: wikimediaindia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:34:17 To: Wikimedia India Community listwikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Reply-To: Wikimedia India Community list < wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Cc: Bangalore Wikimedia listWikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
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Hoi, As the Sanskrit wikisource is waiting for its creation, there is additional value for them to cooperate :). They do not need to buy into Wikipedia in order to be happy with a source for sources. Thanks, GerardM
On 25 February 2011 07:04, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.comwrote:
Sanskrit Bharathi volunteers were generally keen on our Sanskrit Wikipedia. Arunram and others have conducted Wiki academies for them. Probably good idea to take them more into confidence with our movement.
While Kerala & TN governments have chosen to go with the Wikipedia, it is sad that Karnataka government is always trying to reinvent the wheel. May be we are not reaching out with them properly.
It may be a good idea to set up a Chapter task force for government liaisons and policy making, which includes those folks who have done these kind of stuff successfully more than those who have contacts.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Naveen B M naveenbm@gmail.com wrote:
From the state budget speech here ( http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm), it appears this is a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi
- To develop Sanskrit Wikipedia, Rs 1 crore would be provided as
a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi.
Naveen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.comwrote:
Just checked with my sources in the government - and what I hear is that the allocated funds *isn't* for Sanskrit Wikipedia, but a project "on the lines" of Sanskrit Wikipedia, but perhaps with editing control.
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Prashanth NS prashanth.ns@gmail.comwrote:
Yea. I remember that announcement 2 years back and then it got converted into an internal project.
But, a good opportunity for advocacy here. Perhaps some chapter members should meet the department officials and try and get co-opted into the decision-making process. Often, it is lack of information and trust that scares them. Unlike 2 years, back with the chapter in place and most of us quite well networked, we should get involved closely and see if we can get them to invest in improving the sanskrit and kananda wikis.
The government usually prefers a project with editing control rather than one without any direct control over content decisions made.
-- Hari Prasad Nadig
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
I see no social relevence in having a Sanskrit wiki and least of all govt supporting it. Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Fri, 2/25/11, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Wikimedia India Community list" wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Bangalore Wikimedia list" Wikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:10 AM
Hoi, As the Sanskrit wikisource is waiting for its creation, there is additional value for them to cooperate :). They do not need to buy into Wikipedia in order to be happy with a source for sources. Thanks, GerardM
On 25 February 2011 07:04, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com wrote:
Sanskrit Bharathi volunteers were generally keen on our Sanskrit Wikipedia. Arunram and others have conducted Wiki academies for them. Probably good idea to take them more into confidence with our movement.
While Kerala & TN governments have chosen to go with the Wikipedia, it is sad that Karnataka government is always trying to reinvent the wheel. May be we are not reaching out with them properly.
It may be a good idea to set up a Chapter task force for government liaisons and policy making, which includes those folks who have done these kind of stuff successfully more than those who have contacts.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Naveen B M naveenbm@gmail.com wrote:
From the state budget speech here (http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm), it appears this is a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi
182. To develop Sanskrit Wikipedia, Rs 1 crore would be provided as a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi.
Naveen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.com wrote:
Just checked with my sources in the government - and what I hear is that the allocated funds *isn't* for Sanskrit Wikipedia, but a project "on the lines" of Sanskrit Wikipedia, but perhaps with editing control.
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Prashanth NS prashanth.ns@gmail.com wrote:
Yea. I remember that announcement 2 years back and then it got converted into an internal project.
But, a good opportunity for advocacy here. Perhaps some chapter members should meet the department officials and try and get co-opted into the decision-making process. Often, it is lack of information and trust that scares them. Unlike 2 years, back with the chapter in place and most of us quite well networked, we should get involved closely and see if we can get them to invest in improving the sanskrit and kananda wikis.
The government usually prefers a project with editing control rather than one without any direct control over content decisions made.
To Basavaraj, WHY? Your statement has no base. As User:Arunram once told, there are several towns in Karnataka whose population speaks ONLY Sanskrit. Are you referrring to just BIG cities? What is the the basis of your statement? How do you define Social Relevance? -- Regards,
On 26 February 2011 15:10, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
I see no social relevence in having a Sanskrit wiki and least of all govt supporting it. Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Fri, 2/25/11, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com* wrote:
From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Wikimedia India Community list" <wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Bangalore Wikimedia list" Wikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:10 AM
Hoi, As the Sanskrit wikisource is waiting for its creation, there is additional value for them to cooperate :). They do not need to buy into Wikipedia in order to be happy with a source for sources. Thanks, GerardM
On 25 February 2011 07:04, CherianTinu Abraham <tinucherian@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=tinucherian@gmail.com
wrote:
Sanskrit Bharathi volunteers were generally keen on our Sanskrit Wikipedia. Arunram and others have conducted Wiki academies for them. Probably good idea to take them more into confidence with our movement.
While Kerala & TN governments have chosen to go with the Wikipedia, it is sad that Karnataka government is always trying to reinvent the wheel. May be we are not reaching out with them properly.
It may be a good idea to set up a Chapter task force for government liaisons and policy making, which includes those folks who have done these kind of stuff successfully more than those who have contacts.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Naveen B M <naveenbm@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=naveenbm@gmail.com
wrote:
From the state budget speech here ( http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm), it appears this is a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi
- To develop Sanskrit Wikipedia, Rs 1 crore would be provided as
a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi.
Naveen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig <hpnadig@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hpnadig@gmail.com
wrote:
Just checked with my sources in the government - and what I hear is that the allocated funds *isn't* for Sanskrit Wikipedia, but a project "on the lines" of Sanskrit Wikipedia, but perhaps with editing control.
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Prashanth NS <prashanth.ns@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prashanth.ns@gmail.com
wrote:
Yea. I remember that announcement 2 years back and then it got converted into an internal project.
But, a good opportunity for advocacy here. Perhaps some chapter members should meet the department officials and try and get co-opted into the decision-making process. Often, it is lack of information and trust that scares them. Unlike 2 years, back with the chapter in place and most of us quite well networked, we should get involved closely and see if we can get them to invest in improving the sanskrit and kananda wikis.
The government usually prefers a project with editing control rather than one without any direct control over content decisions made.
-- Hari Prasad Nadig
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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shrikanth, that is a wrong question you are asking. right question is India historically right in supporting a language which was used by a particular class to treat others like animals?
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com wrote:
From: Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:03 AM
To Basavaraj, WHY? Your statement has no base. As User:Arunram once told, there are several towns in Karnataka whose population speaks ONLY Sanskrit. Are you referrring to just BIG cities? What is the the basis of your statement? How do you define Social Relevance? -- Regards,
On 26 February 2011 15:10, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
I see no social relevence in having a Sanskrit wiki and least of all govt supporting it. Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Fri, 2/25/11, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Wikimedia India Community list" wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Bangalore Wikimedia list" Wikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:10 AM
Hoi, As the Sanskrit wikisource is waiting for its creation, there is additional value for them to cooperate :). They do not need to buy into Wikipedia in order to be happy with a source for sources. Thanks, GerardM
On 25 February 2011 07:04, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com wrote:
Sanskrit Bharathi volunteers were generally keen on our Sanskrit Wikipedia. Arunram and others have conducted Wiki academies for them. Probably good idea to take them more into confidence with our movement.
While Kerala & TN governments have chosen to go with the Wikipedia, it is sad that Karnataka government is always trying to reinvent the wheel. May be we are not reaching out with them properly.
It may be a good idea to set up a Chapter task force for government liaisons and policy making, which includes those folks who have done these kind of stuff successfully more than those who have contacts.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Naveen B M naveenbm@gmail.com wrote:
From the state budget speech here (http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm), it appears this is a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi
182. To develop Sanskrit Wikipedia, Rs 1 crore would be provided as a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi.
Naveen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.com wrote:
Just checked with my sources in the government - and what I hear is that the allocated funds *isn't* for Sanskrit Wikipedia, but a project "on the lines" of Sanskrit Wikipedia, but perhaps with editing control.
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Prashanth NS prashanth.ns@gmail.com wrote:
Yea. I remember that announcement 2 years back and then it got converted into an internal project.
But, a good opportunity for advocacy here. Perhaps some chapter members should meet the department officials and try and get co-opted into the decision-making process. Often, it is lack of information and trust that scares them. Unlike 2 years, back with the chapter in place and most of us quite well networked, we should get involved closely and see if we can get them to invest in improving the sanskrit and kananda wikis.
The government usually prefers a project with editing control rather than one without any direct control over content decisions made.
I think we are better off not discussing this on this list. Let us keep our discussions on topic.
Swaroop G Rao
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 16:36, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
shrikanth, that is a wrong question you are asking. right question is India historically right in supporting a language which was used by a particular class to treat others like animals?
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com*wrote:
From: Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:03 AM
To Basavaraj, WHY? Your statement has no base. As User:Arunram once told, there are several towns in Karnataka whose population speaks ONLY Sanskrit. Are you referrring to just BIG cities? What is the the basis of your statement? How do you define Social Relevance? -- Regards,
On 26 February 2011 15:10, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
I see no social relevence in having a Sanskrit wiki and least of all govt supporting it. Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Fri, 2/25/11, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Wikimedia India Community list" <wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Bangalore Wikimedia list" <Wikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:10 AM
Hoi, As the Sanskrit wikisource is waiting for its creation, there is additional value for them to cooperate :). They do not need to buy into Wikipedia in order to be happy with a source for sources. Thanks, GerardM
On 25 February 2011 07:04, CherianTinu Abraham <tinucherian@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=tinucherian@gmail.com
wrote:
Sanskrit Bharathi volunteers were generally keen on our Sanskrit Wikipedia. Arunram and others have conducted Wiki academies for them. Probably good idea to take them more into confidence with our movement.
While Kerala & TN governments have chosen to go with the Wikipedia, it is sad that Karnataka government is always trying to reinvent the wheel. May be we are not reaching out with them properly.
It may be a good idea to set up a Chapter task force for government liaisons and policy making, which includes those folks who have done these kind of stuff successfully more than those who have contacts.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Naveen B M <naveenbm@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=naveenbm@gmail.com
wrote:
From the state budget speech here ( http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm), it appears this is a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi
- To develop Sanskrit Wikipedia, Rs 1 crore would be provided as
a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi.
Naveen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig <hpnadig@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hpnadig@gmail.com
wrote:
Just checked with my sources in the government - and what I hear is that the allocated funds *isn't* for Sanskrit Wikipedia, but a project "on the lines" of Sanskrit Wikipedia, but perhaps with editing control.
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Prashanth NS <prashanth.ns@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prashanth.ns@gmail.com
wrote:
Yea. I remember that announcement 2 years back and then it got converted into an internal project.
But, a good opportunity for advocacy here. Perhaps some chapter members should meet the department officials and try and get co-opted into the decision-making process. Often, it is lack of information and trust that scares them. Unlike 2 years, back with the chapter in place and most of us quite well networked, we should get involved closely and see if we can get them to invest in improving the sanskrit and kananda wikis.
The government usually prefers a project with editing control rather than one without any direct control over content decisions made.
-- Hari Prasad Nadig
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
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-- Regards, ME. Wear a Lungi, Support the Movement My infrastructure invasion... plus other images too.. on Wikimedia Commons. http://bit.ly/d50SIq
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Hi Basavarj:
Wikipedia's vision is "Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment."
All languages are part of that and while we may differ in our opinions we can, by the same flip of coin, respect our differences, right?
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
On 26 February 2011 16:36, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
shrikanth, that is a wrong question you are asking. right question is India historically right in supporting a language which was used by a particular class to treat others like animals?
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com wrote:
From: Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:03 AM
To Basavaraj, WHY? Your statement has no base. As User:Arunram once told, there are several towns in Karnataka whose population speaks ONLY Sanskrit. Are you referrring to just BIG cities? What is the the basis of your statement? How do you define Social Relevance? -- Regards,
On 26 February 2011 15:10, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
I see no social relevence in having a Sanskrit wiki and least of all govt supporting it. Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Fri, 2/25/11, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Wikimedia India Community list" wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Bangalore Wikimedia list" Wikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:10 AM
Hoi, As the Sanskrit wikisource is waiting for its creation, there is additional value for them to cooperate :). They do not need to buy into Wikipedia in order to be happy with a source for sources. Thanks, GerardM
On 25 February 2011 07:04, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com wrote:
Sanskrit Bharathi volunteers were generally keen on our Sanskrit Wikipedia. Arunram and others have conducted Wiki academies for them. Probably good idea to take them more into confidence with our movement. While Kerala & TN governments have chosen to go with the Wikipedia, it is sad that Karnataka government is always trying to reinvent the wheel. May be we are not reaching out with them properly. It may be a good idea to set up a Chapter task force for government liaisons and policy making, which includes those folks who have done these kind of stuff successfully more than those who have contacts. Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Naveen B M naveenbm@gmail.com wrote:
From the state budget speech here (http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm), it appears this is a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi
182. To develop Sanskrit Wikipedia, Rs 1 crore would be provided as a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi.
Naveen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.com wrote:
Just checked with my sources in the government - and what I hear is that the allocated funds *isn't* for Sanskrit Wikipedia, but a project "on the lines" of Sanskrit Wikipedia, but perhaps with editing control.
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Prashanth NS prashanth.ns@gmail.com wrote:
Yea. I remember that announcement 2 years back and then it got converted into an internal project. But, a good opportunity for advocacy here. Perhaps some chapter members should meet the department officials and try and get co-opted into the decision-making process. Often, it is lack of information and trust that scares them. Unlike 2 years, back with the chapter in place and most of us quite well networked, we should get involved closely and see if we can get them to invest in improving the sanskrit and kananda wikis.
The government usually prefers a project with editing control rather than one without any direct control over content decisions made.
-- Hari Prasad Nadig
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hey gautham, at the outset it sounds like a cool policy. but every country has its own concerns which are diverse and sometimes mutually contrary. Wiki is a global project and if it does not understand the local concerns it would soon end up a tool of oppression at the hands of those who have access to it to the detriment of those who dont.
In India, for millenia a brahmanical thought uses sanskrit to stunt the growth of rest of the human race and after people like Basava, Gandhi and Ambedkar when finally there is social justice, the inheritors of the same oppressors come and say we are equal? what about the growth stunted by those millenia of oppression? Who will make good the differential intellect among the classes? while no body can, it would extremely insensitive to promote the very tools once used against a large part of community.
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these concerns. Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:08 AM Hi Basavarj:
Wikipedia's vision is "Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment."
All languages are part of that and while we may differ in our opinions we can, by the same flip of coin, respect our differences, right?
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
On 26 February 2011 16:36, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
shrikanth, that is a wrong question you are asking.
right question is India historically right in supporting a language which was used by a particular class to treat others like animals?
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com
wrote:
From: Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI
front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in
& from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:03 AM
To Basavaraj, WHY? Your statement has no base. As User:Arunram once told, there are several towns in
Karnataka whose population speaks ONLY Sanskrit.
Are you referrring to just BIG cities? What is the the basis of your statement? How do you define Social Relevance? -- Regards,
On 26 February 2011 15:10, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
I see no social relevence in having a Sanskrit wiki
and least of all govt supporting it.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Fri, 2/25/11, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI
front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Wikimedia India Community list" wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Bangalore Wikimedia list" Wikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:10 AM
Hoi, As the Sanskrit wikisource is waiting for its
creation, there is additional value for them to cooperate :). They do not need to buy into Wikipedia in order to be happy with a source for sources.
Thanks, GerardM
On 25 February 2011 07:04, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com
wrote:
Sanskrit Bharathi volunteers were generally keen on
our Sanskrit Wikipedia. Arunram and others have conducted Wiki academies for them. Probably good idea to take them more into confidence with our movement.
While Kerala & TN governments have chosen to go
with the Wikipedia, it is sad that Karnataka government is always trying to reinvent the wheel. May be we are not reaching out with them properly.
It may be a good idea to set up a Chapter task force
for government liaisons and policy making, which includes those folks who have done these kind of stuff successfully more than those who have contacts.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Naveen B M naveenbm@gmail.com
wrote:
From the state budget speech here (http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm), it
appears this is a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi
182. To develop Sanskrit Wikipedia,
Rs 1 crore would be provided as a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi.
Naveen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig
hpnadig@gmail.com wrote:
Just checked with my sources in the government - and
what I hear is that the allocated funds *isn't* for Sanskrit Wikipedia, but a project "on the lines" of Sanskrit Wikipedia, but perhaps with editing control.
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Prashanth NS prashanth.ns@gmail.com
wrote:
Yea. I remember that announcement 2 years back and
then it got converted into an internal project.
But, a good opportunity for advocacy here. Perhaps
some chapter members should meet the department officials and try and get co-opted into the decision-making process. Often, it is lack of information and trust that scares them. Unlike 2 years, back with the chapter in place and most of us quite well networked, we should get involved closely and see if we can get them to invest in improving the sanskrit and kananda wikis.
The government usually prefers a project with editing
control rather than one without any direct control over content decisions made.
-- Hari Prasad Nadig
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
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Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-- Regards, ME. Wear a Lungi, Support the Movement My infrastructure invasion... plus other images too.. on Wikimedia Commons. http://bit.ly/d50SIq
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
gautham, u r responding to concluding remarks without saying much about the principal point here.
though this is not about sanskrit, i will give u an example. go to a wiki article called lingayatism. it says that lingayatism is a hndu sect. it talks about some pancha acharyas and it says that Basaveshwara started a movement called veera shaiva / lingayat etc..
now they have an external link called lingayatism.net (or is it.org?) click on that. that website says lingayatism is a non-hindu, non-vedic relegion. i spoke to the office bearers of the plenary body of lingayats in India and they claim they are not hindus. i have scriptures of that religion in original and it was essentially a movement against brahmanical tyranny and inequities in hindu faith. its founder was houded to death by the hindus. now isnt it distortion of historical facts to suit brahmanical view of life? most lingayats have no access to internet and tomorrow ur son would click on that link and form a wrong opinion. at some point a new generation of leaders would emerge with a totally lopsided view of history ..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia India list is meant for discussions relevant to Wikipedia & Wikimedia. It is NOT a forum for discussion social issues. We request to not discuss here that is not relevant for the purpose of this list. There are scores of others in this mailing list who may be least interested in this. Please take it elsewhere.
Thanks Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com* wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
tinu, u mean wiki exists in a social vacuum? very unfortunate and this betrays a lack of responsibility.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com wrote:
From: CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com, "Prateek Ramachandra" prateek.vr@gmail.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:15 PM
Wikimedia India list is meant for discussions relevant to Wikipedia & Wikimedia. It is NOT a forum for discussion social issues. We request to not discuss here that is not relevant for the purpose of this list. There are scores of others in this mailing list who may be least interested in this. Please take it elsewhere.
Thanks Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
and tinu, i am discussing about wikipedia India /wikmedia getting socially irrelevant. if you like them to be as corrupt as they are today, you may choose not to comment.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com wrote:
From: CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com, "Prateek Ramachandra" prateek.vr@gmail.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:15 PM
Wikimedia India list is meant for discussions relevant to Wikipedia & Wikimedia. It is NOT a forum for discussion social issues. We request to not discuss here that is not relevant for the purpose of this list. There are scores of others in this mailing list who may be least interested in this. Please take it elsewhere.
Thanks Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com* wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it? do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
arun, while i like some corrections in some articles, primarily i am concerned more about what wiki is contributing to Indian knowledge base and how. and i guess wiki policies need customising for Indian society.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Arun Ramarathnam" arunram25@gmail.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:51 PM
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it? do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikipedia is a world encyclopedia. Please let us not discuss general topics over here. We are all glad to have you as a distinguished Pali contributor.
Swaroop G Rao
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 18:28, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
arun, while i like some corrections in some articles, primarily i am concerned more about what wiki is contributing to Indian knowledge base and how. and i guess wiki policies need customising for Indian society.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com* wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>, "Arun Ramarathnam" < arunram25@gmail.com> Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:51 PM
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it? do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com* wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" < basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
swaroop u are free to choose not to comment instead of asking voices of dissent to shut up. u lack sense of social relevance and there is no use of such wikipedians. and hope u respect pali as u respect sanskrit - the language known to be the vehicle of senseless attitudes. and if u study history hopefully you will learn that sanskrit speaking brahmanical class chased pali user budhists out of this country. brahmanical thought is very insensitive to other thoughts. it is written all over Indian history.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com wrote:
From: Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 1:27 PM
Wikipedia is a world encyclopedia. Please let us not discuss general topics over here. We are all glad to have you as a distinguished Pali contributor.
Swaroop G Rao
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 18:28, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
arun, while i like some corrections in some articles, primarily i am concerned more about what wiki is contributing to Indian knowledge base and how. and i guess wiki policies need customising for Indian society.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Arun Ramarathnam" arunram25@gmail.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:51 PM
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it? do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
This is not a forum for discussing Sanskrit history. Kindly go by the rules of the list.
Best Wishes, Swaroop G Rao
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 19:02, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
swaroop u are free to choose not to comment instead of asking voices of dissent to shut up. u lack sense of social relevance and there is no use of such wikipedians. and hope u respect pali as u respect sanskrit - the language known to be the vehicle of senseless attitudes. and if u study history hopefully you will learn that sanskrit speaking brahmanical class chased pali user budhists out of this country. brahmanical thought is very insensitive to other thoughts. it is written all over Indian history.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com* wrote:
From: Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 1:27 PM
Wikipedia is a world encyclopedia. Please let us not discuss general topics over here. We are all glad to have you as a distinguished Pali contributor.
Swaroop G Rao
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 18:28, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
arun, while i like some corrections in some articles, primarily i am concerned more about what wiki is contributing to Indian knowledge base and how. and i guess wiki policies need customising for Indian society.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
- wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>, "Arun Ramarathnam" <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:51 PM
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it? do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>, "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
no advice again. swaroop kindly go by what ur society needs.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com wrote:
From: Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 1:36 PM
This is not a forum for discussing Sanskrit history. Kindly go by the rules of the list.
Best Wishes, Swaroop G Rao
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 19:02, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
swaroop u are free to choose not to comment instead of asking voices of dissent to shut up. u lack sense of social relevance and there is no use of such wikipedians. and hope u respect pali as u respect sanskrit - the language known to be the vehicle of senseless attitudes. and if u study history hopefully you will learn that sanskrit speaking brahmanical class chased pali user budhists out of this country. brahmanical thought is very insensitive to other thoughts. it is written all over Indian history.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com wrote:
From: Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 1:27 PM
Wikipedia is a world encyclopedia. Please let us not discuss general topics over here. We are all glad to have you as a distinguished Pali contributor.
Swaroop G Rao
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 18:28, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
arun, while i like some corrections in some articles, primarily i am concerned more about what wiki is contributing to Indian knowledge base and how. and i guess wiki policies need customising for Indian society.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Arun Ramarathnam" arunram25@gmail.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:51 PM
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it? do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Basavaraj,
First : Wikipedia is for editing/adding articles. So if u like corrections in them, please do so instead of unwanted talk.
Second : Wikipedia is a global venture and not a local one for customizing policies! Every country is capable of creating its own Wiki-like facility. If you are so not interested in here, its better that you leave and start one of your own according to your and "social" needs.
Third : Sanskrit is the Mother of languages in India. You agree that the knowledge is now available in English and many other languages also. The people of old India were asked to follow certain rules and now we know the true fact behind them. If the facts behind something are disclosed people will want to deliberatly cross it.
Fourth : You've been provided with links to the pali wikipedia. If you want to develop it, you are gladly welcome to contribute! That is our aim.
Fifth : Before you talk about "social relevance", I want you to do this. Go to a person and give him an encyclopedia. It can be anything, Encarta or britannica, your wish. And ask him the social relevance of those because they came first.
This is not a forum to express your personal feelings about something and please keep that out of discussion.
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com wrote:
Wikipedia is a world encyclopedia. Please let us not discuss general topics over here. We are all glad to have you as a distinguished Pali contributor.
Swaroop G Rao
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 18:28, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
arun, while i like some corrections in some articles, primarily i am concerned more about what wiki is contributing to Indian knowledge base and how. and i guess wiki policies need customising for Indian society.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com* wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Arun Ramarathnam" < arunram25@gmail.com> Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:51 PM
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it? do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com* wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" < basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal < basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal < basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
guys i would do without ur advice. i see most of u r either studying and have just finished college. if you go with such blinkers on historical facts and social context, there is serious trouble on the way.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Sathyam Vellal sathyam.vellal@gmail.com wrote:
From: Sathyam Vellal sathyam.vellal@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 1:32 PM
Basavaraj,
First : Wikipedia is for editing/adding articles. So if u like corrections in them, please do so instead of unwanted talk.
Second : Wikipedia is a global venture and not a local one for customizing policies! Every country is capable of creating its own Wiki-like facility. If you are so not interested in here, its better that you leave and start one of your own according to your and "social" needs.
Third : Sanskrit is the Mother of languages in India. You agree that the knowledge is now available in English and many other languages also. The people of old India were asked to follow certain rules and now we know the true fact behind them. If the facts behind something are disclosed people will want to deliberatly cross it.
Fourth : You've been provided with links to the pali wikipedia. If you want to develop it, you are gladly welcome to contribute! That is our aim.
Fifth : Before you talk about "social relevance", I want you to do this. Go to a person and give him an encyclopedia. It can be anything, Encarta or britannica, your wish. And ask him the social relevance of those because they came first.
This is not a forum to express your personal feelings about something and please keep that out of discussion.
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Swaroop Rao raul.swaroop@gmail.com wrote:
Wikipedia is a world encyclopedia. Please let us not discuss general topics over here. We are all glad to have you as a distinguished Pali contributor.
Swaroop G Rao
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 18:28, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
arun, while i like some corrections in some articles, primarily i am concerned more about what wiki is contributing to Indian knowledge base and how. and i guess wiki policies need customising for Indian society.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Arun Ramarathnam" arunram25@gmail.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:51 PM
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it? do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
- The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) - Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society.
The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP).
Thanks Arun
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com* wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" < basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
arun, will get back on that. need to rush somewhere. :) it's saturday night!
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia *must not be used for personal vendetta*... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing?
Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post.
now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day;
- Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not
think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun.
- Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started
reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints.
- Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up
for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements.
- No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing
the story get it checked by your peers.
Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that.
Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with
- Indian History by Romila Thapar
- Indian History by Percieval Spear
- Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra
- Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre
- Discovery of India by Nehru
- Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia
...this list can go on. more later.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com* wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal < basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
- The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it)
- Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society.
The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP).
Thanks Arun
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>, "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
prateek, i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations. your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks. the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
prateek, i forgot to respond to a comment of yours, so..
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium..
The same follows here.. its understood.. What you mean same follows here? you mean to say you guys are following the same principle? or you mean same ought to be followed? If you meant the former, my observation is that those principles are not being followed and it needs immidiate attention not explanation. If you meant the latter, that is a good sign. further to that, please tell me about the sources of that dirty insinuation of personal vendetta. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Tue, 3/1/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 5:14 AM
prateek, i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations. your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks. the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
prateek,
i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations.
your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks.
the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier.
thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com* wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia *must not be used for personal vendetta*... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing?
Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post.
now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day;
- Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not
think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun.
- Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started
reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints.
- Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up
for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements.
- No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing
the story get it checked by your peers.
Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that.
Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with
- Indian History by Romila Thapar
- Indian History by Percieval Spear
- Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra
- Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre
- Discovery of India by Nehru
- Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia
...this list can go on. more later.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal < basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
- The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it)
- Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society.
The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP).
Thanks Arun
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>, "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
prateek, i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations. your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks. the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
hi folks, just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all? the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them tell me what i can do to help. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
prateek, i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations. your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks. the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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Hi All,
It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically educated elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to answer?
Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to say!
On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit for not more than a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the "Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or opportunity provided by Wiki.
Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and reflect. I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all.
Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
hi folks,
just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all?
the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them
tell me what i can do to help.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com* wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com* wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
prateek,
i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations.
your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks.
the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier.
thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia *must not be used for personal vendetta*... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing?
Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post.
now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day;
- Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not
think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun.
- Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started
reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints.
- Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up
for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements.
- No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing
the story get it checked by your peers.
Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that.
Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with
- Indian History by Romila Thapar
- Indian History by Percieval Spear
- Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra
- Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre
- Discovery of India by Nehru
- Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia
...this list can go on. more later.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal < basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
- The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it)
- Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society.
The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP).
Thanks Arun
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>, "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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hello.. it is interesting to see personal love and devotion for sanskrit is over riding its role as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity. it is interesting that a smoke screen is being created on historical facts. hope no attempt will be made to serve truth on piece mean basis. for, it will strike back and how. take care
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 2:25 AM
Hi All,
It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically educated elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to answer?
Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to say!
On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit for not more than a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the "Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or opportunity provided by Wiki.
Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and reflect. I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all.
Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi folks, just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all? the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them tell me what i can do to help. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
prateek, i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations. your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks. the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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Hi all,
It is amusing to see this much hatred for the "Language of Gods" and equally amusing to experience the reciprocation from another wikian. Any amount of argument may not change the deep rooted beliefs but this kind of feeling and expressions are not healthy among elites.
Show me the proof (Sanskrit as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity).It is very harsh and needs authenticity.It is as harsh and strong as my hatred for anything "American" which is baseless but a fact.
So let the healthy debate continue,let us not censor or switch off individuals.It is a free world anybody can have any opinion on any issue.
Love & Regards.
Gokuldas
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
hello..enticity
it is interesting to see personal love and devotion for sanskrit is over riding its role as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity. it is interesting that a smoke screen is being created on historical facts. hope no attempt will be made to serve truth on piece mean basis. for, it will strike back and how.e
take care
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com* wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 2:25 AM
Hi All,
It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and
reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically educated elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to answer?
Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to
say!
On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my
existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit for not more than a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the "Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or opportunity provided by Wiki.
Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad
Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and
reflect. I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all.
Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
hi folks,
just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all?
the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them
tell me what i can do to help.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
- wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
prateek,
i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations.
your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks.
the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier.
thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia *must not be used for personal vendetta*... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing?
Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post.
now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day;
- Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not
think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun.
- Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started
reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints.
- Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up
for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements.
- No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing
the story get it checked by your peers.
Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that.
Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with
- Indian History by Romila Thapar
- Indian History by Percieval Spear
- Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra
- Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre
- Discovery of India by Nehru
- Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia
...this list can go on. more later.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal < basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
- The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it)
- Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society.
The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP).
Thanks Arun
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>, "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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gokul, you say you are 60 years old and i guess you may not have read history as you have dismissed history as being `far far from truth'. in medeival times, non-brahmins were barred from even hearing a word of sanskrit leave alone learning it. even brahmin women were treated as `non-brahmin'. if any non-brahmin heard it, a severe and exemplary punishement was given. that was the time when all knowledge was held in sanskrit and that knowledge was also basis of caste syestem in Indian sub continent which had inhuman practice of untouchability. other contribution of this mother of all languages was sati wherein a woman is burn alive along with her husband's body. now, that is recorded by all historians. and you are trying to mislead the community by brushing aside these historical facts. as an Indian i see absolutely no use for Sanskrit and in my view it needs a safe burial. but if wikipedia seeks to have a knowledge base in that language, i dont object. my only objection is seeking govt funding for the project. it is immoral to feed this language the money of tax payers many of whom were possibly its victims. please start reading history, it is not too late. in earlier mails i have sent a random list of books and i will suggest some more in the future. by the way, Bhagavd Gita is the first ever justification of war between brothers. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 9:55 AM
Hi all,
It is amusing to see this much hatred for the "Language of Gods" and equally amusing to experience the reciprocation from another wikian. Any amount of argument may not change the deep rooted beliefs but this kind of feeling and expressions are not healthy among elites.
Show me the proof (Sanskrit as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity).It is very harsh and needs authenticity.It is as harsh and strong as my hatred for anything "American" which is baseless but a fact.
So let the healthy debate continue,let us not censor or switch off individuals.It is a free world anybody can have any opinion on any issue.
Love & Regards.
Gokuldas
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hello..enticity it is interesting to see personal love and devotion for sanskrit is over riding its role as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity. it is interesting that a smoke screen is being created on historical facts. hope no attempt will be made to serve truth on piece mean basis. for, it will strike back and how.e take care
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 2:25 AM
Hi All,
It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically educated elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to answer?
Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to say!
On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit for not more than a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the "Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or opportunity provided by Wiki.
Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and reflect. I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all.
Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi folks, just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all? the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them tell me what i can do to help. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
prateek, i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations. your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks. the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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Hi All,
The discussion is getting intense and it is interesting. Yes, I have not read history but for the first 50 or so pages of "Discovery of India" and a few pages of college history text books of my friends' kids.
I have equal reverence for all subjects in arts & science that can hold the imagination of the plant and the animal mind.
I have not dismissed History ,it is as relevant a subject as Finance in niche universities ,the elite learners in the past 30 to 50 years who wiped out the wealth of the world by 10 to 12 trillion US dollars, and every 8th American lost his home to mortgage crisis.Good, our RBI is smart enough not to ape the Federal Reserve of US in the last decade, and hope the rest of the world including Europe learnt a lesson.
Hey Gokul,Don't deviate from the main issue!
Still, I need to see to believe your writing,Quote"in medeival times, non-brahmins were barred from even hearing a word of sanskrit leave alone learning it. even brahmin women were treated as `non-brahmin'. if any non-brahmin heard it, a severe and exemplary punishement was given."Unquote, See, this is how a scienceman's mind works.Where is the experimental proof for me to believe?Is that happening in front of my perceivable senses?If that happens I shall believe! No universities can convince my mind to believe some writings in Sanskrit or English or of any other great languages.
For me the term"Historical Fact"is not conceivable as I need that to happen in front of my senses.But,I don't and can't expect the same view from others.That is about the 'freedom of choice' on expressions,beliefs and scholarships. Scholarships on History is as contributive as Maths,Painting , Astronomy,Astrology,Chemistry,Music,Sculpture,Aerodynamics,I mean any chapter on any subject of Arts&Science.Or for that matter Scholarship in Sanskrit.That is my argument. , Because of my personal application and the effects of reciting mantras not always in Sanskrit,I have certain practically developed regards for Sanskrit though I am a novice on either Sanskrit or History.That doesn't mean I want others to practice what I practice.That is the freedom to practice.
By the way is there any methodology to practice "History" which can give me happiness and enhance me to be a better and contributing individual.If there is any, I would like to try a new way to uplift myself to be a better human.I am not joking or sarcastic , I am dead serious.
Again,I differ with the wordings," that was the time when all knowledge was held in sanskrit." All the languages were evolving on the same platform available at that point of time and nobody can ever stop the process of evolution of any activity."Survival of the Fittest" holds good throughout history.The strong kshatriays,vaisias and sudras could have man slaughtered the bhramins to prove their point like EVR Periyar or for that matter Karunanidhi of today.
Food,Cloth and Shelter were the fundamental necessity of humans and not knowledge.Knowledge is only a "Side Dish" for human existence, and again this is my freedom of expressing things in my own way which I can't impose on others.
If somebody practices "untouchability" on others , they should simply reciprocate the same on that somebody. This so called "Untouchability" is also happening all over the world all through the history. As it is now ,some white skinned prostitutes do not customize other races and vice versa.The importance of "untouchability" stops at that in my view. When you see a bhramin, you turn your face in disgust and walk away and make him know that in your own way. Nobody stops you.That is how I handle "Untouchability " in airports,malls , theaters and any public places.It is happening everyday around you everywhere and it is the individual strength anyone need to handle the situation."The practitioners are equally scared of the others" is my humble observation.
My day is calling!!!! Some other time, some other day I shall join the argument with out any bias and hatred for any views. Thanks for reading !! Love & Regards for all.
Gokuldas
N B C(Note Before Closing): The following writings will be discussed later.You see , how amusingly creative I am for all my 60 years.
and that knowledge was also basis of caste syestem in Indian sub continent which had inhuman practice of untouchability. other contribution of this mother of all languages was sati wherein a woman is burn alive along with her husband's body."
Gokul
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.comwrote:
gokul,
you say you are 60 years old and i guess you may not have read history as you have dismissed history as being `far far from truth'.
in medeival times, non-brahmins were barred from even hearing a word of sanskrit leave alone learning it. even brahmin women were treated as `non-brahmin'. if any non-brahmin heard it, a severe and exemplary punishement was given. that was the time when all knowledge was held in sanskrit and that knowledge was also basis of caste syestem in Indian sub continent which had inhuman practice of untouchability. other contribution of this mother of all languages was sati wherein a woman is burn alive along with her husband's body.
now, that is recorded by all historians. and you are trying to mislead the community by brushing aside these historical facts.
as an Indian i see absolutely no use for Sanskrit and in my view it needs a safe burial. but if wikipedia seeks to have a knowledge base in that language, i dont object.
my only objection is seeking govt funding for the project. it is immoral to feed this language the money of tax payers many of whom were possibly its victims.
please start reading history, it is not too late. in earlier mails i have sent a random list of books and i will suggest some more in the future.
by the way, Bhagavd Gita is the first ever justification of war between brothers.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com* wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 9:55 AM
Hi all,
It is amusing to see this much hatred for the "Language of Gods"
and equally amusing to experience the reciprocation from another wikian. Any amount of argument may not change the deep rooted beliefs but this kind of feeling and expressions are not healthy among elites.
Show me the proof (Sanskrit as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of
humanity).It is very harsh and needs authenticity.It is as harsh and strong as my hatred for anything "American" which is baseless but a fact.
So let the healthy debate continue,let us not censor or switch off
individuals.It is a free world anybody can have any opinion on any issue.
Love & Regards.
Gokuldas
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
hello..enticity
it is interesting to see personal love and devotion for sanskrit is over riding its role as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity. it is interesting that a smoke screen is being created on historical facts. hope no attempt will be made to serve truth on piece mean basis. for, it will strike back and how.e
take care
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 2:25 AM
Hi All,
It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and
reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically educated elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to answer?
Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to
say!
On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my
existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit for not more than a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the "Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or opportunity provided by Wiki.
Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad
Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and
reflect. I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all.
Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
hi folks,
just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all?
the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them
tell me what i can do to help.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
- wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
prateek,
i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations.
your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks.
the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier.
thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia *must not be used for personal vendetta*... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing?
Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post.
now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day;
- Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not
think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun.
- Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started
reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints.
- Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up
for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements.
- No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing
the story get it checked by your peers.
Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that.
Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with
- Indian History by Romila Thapar
- Indian History by Percieval Spear
- Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra
- Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre
- Discovery of India by Nehru
- Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia
- Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia
...this list can go on. more later.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" < wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal < basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
- The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it)
- Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society.
The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP).
Thanks Arun
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>, "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1
cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
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gokul and co, how're u? i see a lot of point of views here on history without reading much of it. i see a lot of theories against history without knowing it. is this a propaganda against historical facts in a bid to tie a blind fold on the eyes of the youth.. but no amount of campaign to spread a fallcy can deny the fact that manu smriti, vedas and upanishads which formed a casteist society and preached treatment of women like beasts were all written in sanskrit.. though i see a lot of prejudices and i dont think you would consider them, some random citations; http://books.google.co.in/books?id=rSF8b5hbyP0C&pg=PT125&lpg=PT125&a... http://hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1808/18080950.htm http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_51_100/obscurantism.htm http://books.google.co.in/books?id=maFRVrOe1PQC&printsec=frontcover&... http://manukhsi.blogspot.com/2010/10/ram-mandir-attempt-to-reimpose.html http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/1781177-how-brahmins-killed-buddhi... http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Women_In_Hinduism see if you can find a balance. gud luck.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/10/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 3:04 AM
Hi All,
The discussion is getting intense and it is interesting. Yes, I have not read history but for the first 50 or so pages of "Discovery of India" and a few pages of college history text books of my friends' kids.
I have equal reverence for all subjects in arts & science that can hold the imagination of the plant and the animal mind.
I have not dismissed History ,it is as relevant a subject as Finance in niche universities ,the elite learners in the past 30 to 50 years who wiped out the wealth of the world by 10 to 12 trillion US dollars, and every 8th American lost his home to mortgage crisis.Good, our RBI is smart enough not to ape the Federal Reserve of US in the last decade, and hope the rest of the world including Europe learnt a lesson.
Hey Gokul,Don't deviate from the main issue!
Still, I need to see to believe your writing,Quote"in medeival times, non-brahmins were barred from even hearing a word of sanskrit leave alone learning it. even brahmin women were treated as `non-brahmin'. if any non-brahmin heard it, a severe and exemplary punishement was given."Unquote, See, this is how a scienceman's mind works.Where is the experimental proof for me to believe?Is that happening in front of my perceivable senses?If that happens I shall believe! No universities can convince my mind to believe some writings in Sanskrit or English or of any other great languages.
For me the term"Historical Fact"is not conceivable as I need that to happen in front of my senses.But,I don't and can't expect the same view from others.That is about the 'freedom of choice' on expressions,beliefs and scholarships. Scholarships on History is as contributive as Maths,Painting , Astronomy,Astrology,Chemistry,Music,Sculpture,Aerodynamics,I mean any chapter on any subject of Arts&Science.Or for that matter Scholarship in Sanskrit.That is my argument. , Because of my personal application and the effects of reciting mantras not always in Sanskrit,I have certain practically developed regards for Sanskrit though I am a novice on either Sanskrit or History.That doesn't mean I want others to practice what I practice.That is the freedom to practice.
By the way is there any methodology to practice "History" which can give me happiness and enhance me to be a better and contributing individual.If there is any, I would like to try a new way to uplift myself to be a better human.I am not joking or sarcastic , I am dead serious.
Again,I differ with the wordings," that was the time when all knowledge was held in sanskrit." All the languages were evolving on the same platform available at that point of time and nobody can ever stop the process of evolution of any activity."Survival of the Fittest" holds good throughout history.The strong kshatriays,vaisias and sudras could have man slaughtered the bhramins to prove their point like EVR Periyar or for that matter Karunanidhi of today.
Food,Cloth and Shelter were the fundamental necessity of humans and not knowledge.Knowledge is only a "Side Dish" for human existence, and again this is my freedom of expressing things in my own way which I can't impose on others.
If somebody practices "untouchability" on others , they should simply reciprocate the same on that somebody. This so called "Untouchability" is also happening all over the world all through the history. As it is now ,some white skinned prostitutes do not customize other races and vice versa.The importance of "untouchability" stops at that in my view. When you see a bhramin, you turn your face in disgust and walk away and make him know that in your own way. Nobody stops you.That is how I handle "Untouchability " in airports,malls , theaters and any public places.It is happening everyday around you everywhere and it is the individual strength anyone need to handle the situation."The practitioners are equally scared of the others" is my humble observation.
My day is calling!!!! Some other time, some other day I shall join the argument with out any bias and hatred for any views. Thanks for reading !! Love & Regards for all.
Gokuldas
N B C(Note Before Closing): The following writings will be discussed later.You see , how amusingly creative I am for all my 60 years.
and that knowledge was also basis of caste syestem in Indian sub continent which had inhuman practice of untouchability. other contribution of this mother of all languages was sati wherein a woman is burn alive along with her husband's body."
Gokul
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
gokul, you say you are 60 years old and i guess you may not have read history as you have dismissed history as being `far far from truth'. in medeival times, non-brahmins were barred from even hearing a word of sanskrit leave alone learning it. even brahmin women were treated as `non-brahmin'. if any non-brahmin heard it, a severe and exemplary punishement was given. that was the time when all knowledge was held in sanskrit and that knowledge was also basis of caste syestem in Indian sub continent which had inhuman practice of untouchability. other contribution of this mother of all languages was sati wherein a woman is burn alive along with her husband's body. now, that is recorded by all historians. and you are trying to mislead the community by brushing aside these historical facts. as an Indian i see absolutely no use for Sanskrit and in my view it needs a safe burial. but if wikipedia seeks to have a knowledge base in that language, i dont object. my only objection is seeking govt funding for the project. it is immoral to feed this language the money of tax payers many of whom were possibly its victims. please start reading history, it is not too late. in earlier mails i have sent a random list of books and i will suggest some more in the future. by the way, Bhagavd Gita is the first ever justification of war between brothers. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 9:55 AM
Hi all,
It is amusing to see this much hatred for the "Language of Gods" and equally amusing to experience the reciprocation from another wikian. Any amount of argument may not change the deep rooted beliefs but this kind of feeling and expressions are not healthy among elites.
Show me the proof (Sanskrit as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity).It is very harsh and needs authenticity.It is as harsh and strong as my hatred for anything "American" which is baseless but a fact.
So let the healthy debate continue,let us not censor or switch off individuals.It is a free world anybody can have any opinion on any issue.
Love & Regards.
Gokuldas
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hello..enticity it is interesting to see personal love and devotion for sanskrit is over riding its role as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity. it is interesting that a smoke screen is being created on historical facts. hope no attempt will be made to serve truth on piece mean basis. for, it will strike back and how.e take care
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 2:25 AM
Hi All,
It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically educated elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to answer?
Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to say!
On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit for not more than a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the "Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or opportunity provided by Wiki.
Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and reflect. I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all.
Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi folks, just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all? the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them tell me what i can do to help. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
prateek, i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations. your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks. the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
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hi all, at this point i am not blaming anyone or faulting any article related to any ideology, history or politics. but wikimedia has to be extra careful as chauvanistic right wing `intellectual workers' trying to hide secular and impartial views which have been enshrined in the Indian concept of social equity.. i offer some links so that there is adequate alert when dealing with such issues; http://www.southasianmedia.net/magazine/journal/critique_hindutva.htm http://www.indianexpress.com/oldStory/20130/ http://www.scribd.com/doc/7692067/Hindutva-Fascism http://www.sabrang.com/hnfund/sacw/part2.html www.fides.org/eng/documents/REFLECTION_on_Hindutva.doc many of the points from these links need to be included in the article on Hindutva
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/10/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "gokul das" gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 1:01 PM
gokul and co, how're u? i see a lot of point of views here on history without reading much of it. i see a lot of theories against history without knowing it. is this a propaganda against historical facts in a bid to tie a blind fold on the eyes of the youth.. but no amount of campaign to spread a fallcy can deny the fact that manu smriti, vedas and upanishads which formed a casteist society and preached treatment of women like beasts were all written in sanskrit.. though i see a lot of prejudices and i dont think you would consider them, some random citations; http://books.google.co.in/books?id=rSF8b5hbyP0C&pg=PT125&lpg=PT125&a... http://hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1808/18080950.htm http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_51_100/obscurantism.htm http://books.google.co.in/books?id=maFRVrOe1PQC&printsec=frontcover&... http://manukhsi.blogspot.com/2010/10/ram-mandir-attempt-to-reimpose.html http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/1781177-how-brahmins-killed-buddhi... http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Women_In_Hinduism see if you can find a balance. gud luck.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/10/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 3:04 AM
Hi All,
The discussion is getting intense and it is interesting. Yes, I have not read history but for the first 50 or so pages of "Discovery of India" and a few pages of college history text books of my friends' kids.
I have equal reverence for all subjects in arts & science that can hold the imagination of the plant and the animal mind.
I have not dismissed History ,it is as relevant a subject as Finance in niche universities ,the elite learners in the past 30 to 50 years who wiped out the wealth of the world by 10 to 12 trillion US dollars, and every 8th American lost his home to mortgage crisis.Good, our RBI is smart enough not to ape the Federal Reserve of US in the last decade, and hope the rest of the world including Europe learnt a lesson.
Hey Gokul,Don't deviate from the main issue!
Still, I need to see to believe your writing,Quote"in medeival times, non-brahmins were barred from even hearing a word of sanskrit leave alone learning it. even brahmin women were treated as `non-brahmin'. if any non-brahmin heard it, a severe and exemplary punishement was given."Unquote, See, this is how a scienceman's mind works.Where is the experimental proof for me to believe?Is that happening in front of my perceivable senses?If that happens I shall believe! No universities can convince my mind to believe some writings in Sanskrit or English or of any other great languages.
For me the term"Historical Fact"is not conceivable as I need that to happen in front of my senses.But,I don't and can't expect the same view from others.That is about the 'freedom of choice' on expressions,beliefs and scholarships. Scholarships on History is as contributive as Maths,Painting , Astronomy,Astrology,Chemistry,Music,Sculpture,Aerodynamics,I mean any chapter on any subject of Arts&Science.Or for that matter Scholarship in Sanskrit.That is my argument. , Because of my personal application and the effects of reciting mantras not always in Sanskrit,I have certain practically developed regards for Sanskrit though I am a novice on either Sanskrit or History.That doesn't mean I want others to practice what I practice.That is the freedom to practice.
By the way is there any methodology to practice "History" which can give me happiness and enhance me to be a better and contributing individual.If there is any, I would like to try a new way to uplift myself to be a better human.I am not joking or sarcastic , I am dead serious.
Again,I differ with the wordings," that was the time when all knowledge was held in sanskrit." All the languages were evolving on the same platform available at that point of time and nobody can ever stop the process of evolution of any activity."Survival of the Fittest" holds good throughout history.The strong kshatriays,vaisias and sudras could have man slaughtered the bhramins to prove their point like EVR Periyar or for that matter Karunanidhi of today.
Food,Cloth and Shelter were the fundamental necessity of humans and not knowledge.Knowledge is only a "Side Dish" for human existence, and again this is my freedom of expressing things in my own way which I can't impose on others.
If somebody practices "untouchability" on others , they should simply reciprocate the same on that somebody. This so called "Untouchability" is also happening all over the world all through the history. As it is now ,some white skinned prostitutes do not customize other races and vice versa.The importance of "untouchability" stops at that in my view. When you see a bhramin, you turn your face in disgust and walk away and make him know that in your own way. Nobody stops you.That is how I handle "Untouchability " in airports,malls , theaters and any public places.It is happening everyday around you everywhere and it is the individual strength anyone need to handle the situation."The practitioners are equally scared of the others" is my humble observation.
My day is calling!!!! Some other time, some other day I shall join the argument with out any bias and hatred for any views. Thanks for reading !! Love & Regards for all.
Gokuldas
N B C(Note Before Closing): The following writings will be discussed later.You see , how amusingly creative I am for all my 60 years.
and that knowledge was also basis of caste syestem in Indian sub continent which had inhuman practice of untouchability. other contribution of this mother of all languages was sati wherein a woman is burn alive along with her husband's body."
Gokul
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
gokul, you say you are 60 years old and i guess you may not have read history as you have dismissed history as being `far far from truth'. in medeival times, non-brahmins were barred from even hearing a word of sanskrit leave alone learning it. even brahmin women were treated as `non-brahmin'. if any non-brahmin heard it, a severe and exemplary punishement was given. that was the time when all knowledge was held in sanskrit and that knowledge was also basis of caste syestem in Indian sub continent which had inhuman practice of untouchability. other contribution of this mother of all languages was sati wherein a woman is burn alive along with her husband's body. now, that is recorded by all historians. and you are trying to mislead the community by brushing aside these historical facts. as an Indian i see absolutely no use for Sanskrit and in my view it needs a safe burial. but if wikipedia seeks to have a knowledge base in that language, i dont object. my only objection is seeking govt funding for the project. it is immoral to feed this language the money of tax payers many of whom were possibly its victims. please start reading history, it is not too late. in earlier mails i have sent a random list of books and i will suggest some more in the future. by the way, Bhagavd Gita is the first ever justification of war between brothers. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 9:55 AM
Hi all,
It is amusing to see this much hatred for the "Language of Gods" and equally amusing to experience the reciprocation from another wikian. Any amount of argument may not change the deep rooted beliefs but this kind of feeling and expressions are not healthy among elites.
Show me the proof (Sanskrit as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity).It is very harsh and needs authenticity.It is as harsh and strong as my hatred for anything "American" which is baseless but a fact.
So let the healthy debate continue,let us not censor or switch off individuals.It is a free world anybody can have any opinion on any issue.
Love & Regards.
Gokuldas
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hello..enticity it is interesting to see personal love and devotion for sanskrit is over riding its role as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity. it is interesting that a smoke screen is being created on historical facts. hope no attempt will be made to serve truth on piece mean basis. for, it will strike back and how.e take care
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 2:25 AM
Hi All,
It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically educated elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to answer?
Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to say!
On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit for not more than a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the "Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or opportunity provided by Wiki.
Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and reflect. I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all.
Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi folks, just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all? the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them tell me what i can do to help. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
prateek, i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations. your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks. the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
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Hi Gokul ,
I agree with you .
Best Regards
Saroj Sahoo
iLSSS
Reach me @ http://www.mybantu.com/ myBantu
From: wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of gokul das Sent: 06 March 2011 15:26 To: Basavaraj Itnal Cc: IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
Hi all,
It is amusing to see this much hatred for the "Language of Gods"
and equally amusing to experience the reciprocation from another wikian.
Any amount of argument may not change the deep rooted beliefs but this kind of feeling and expressions are not healthy among elites.
Show me the proof (Sanskrit as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity).It is very harsh and needs authenticity.It is as harsh and strong
as my hatred for anything "American" which is baseless but a fact.
So let the healthy debate continue,let us not censor or switch off
individuals.It is a free world anybody can have any opinion on any issue.
Love & Regards.
Gokuldas
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hello..enticity
it is interesting to see personal love and devotion for sanskrit is over riding its role as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity. it is interesting that a smoke screen is being created on historical facts. hope no attempt will be made to serve truth on piece mean basis. for, it will strike back and how.e
take care
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 2:25 AM
Hi All,
It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically educated elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to answer?
Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to say!
On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit for not more than a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the "Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or opportunity provided by Wiki.
Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and reflect. I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all.
Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > wrote:
hi folks,
just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all?
the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them
tell me what i can do to help.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime dia.org > Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com > wrote:
From: gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime dia.org > Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and
interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > wrote:
prateek,
i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations.
your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks.
the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier.
thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com > wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime dia.org > Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium..
The same follows here.. its understood..
Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards,
Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing?
Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post.
now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day;
1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun.
2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints.
3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements.
4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers.
Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that.
Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with
1. Indian History by Romila Thapar
2. Indian History by Percieval Spear
3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra
4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre
5. Discovery of India by Nehru
6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia
7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia
8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia
...this list can go on. more later.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com > wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime dia.org > Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
* The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) * Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society.
The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP).
Thanks
Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com > wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime dia.org >, "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list.
It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er ror
Thank you
Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com > wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime dia.org >
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com > wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult ure.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel igion-Mate-Mahadevi/articleshow/7231849.cms
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga yats.html
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.org http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org > wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam@prathambooks.org
http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime dia.org >
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com >
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org
http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime dia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-in-blr mailing list Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime dia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-blr
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that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com wrote:
From: gokul das gokuldas.1950@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
prateek, i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations. your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks. the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier. thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium.. The same follows here.. its understood.. Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards, Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing? Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post. now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day; 1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun. 2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints. 3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements. 4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers. Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that. Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with 1. Indian History by Romila Thapar 2. Indian History by Percieval Spear 3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra 4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre 5. Discovery of India by Nehru 6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia 7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia 8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia ...this list can go on. more later. regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it) Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society. The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP). Thanks Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam arunram25@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org, "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list. It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
Thank you Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra prateek.vr@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel...
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga...
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org wrote:
From: Gautam John gautam@prathambooks.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being an encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful pillars that promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
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I don't understand what you are trying to say. Please clearly state why you feel Sanskrit Wiki ahs no scoial relevance?
-Regards, Srikanth R.
On 26 February 2011 16:36, Basavaraj Itnal basavarajitnal@yahoo.com wrote:
shrikanth, that is a wrong question you are asking. right question is India historically right in supporting a language which was used by a particular class to treat others like animals?
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Sat, 2/26/11, Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com*wrote:
From: Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" basavarajitnal@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:03 AM
To Basavaraj, WHY? Your statement has no base. As User:Arunram once told, there are several towns in Karnataka whose population speaks ONLY Sanskrit. Are you referrring to just BIG cities? What is the the basis of your statement? How do you define Social Relevance? -- Regards,
On 26 February 2011 15:10, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com
wrote:
I see no social relevence in having a Sanskrit wiki and least of all govt supporting it. Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On *Fri, 2/25/11, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
- wrote:
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Wikimedia India Community list" <wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: "Bangalore Wikimedia list" <Wikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Wikimedia-IN-BLR@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:10 AM
Hoi, As the Sanskrit wikisource is waiting for its creation, there is additional value for them to cooperate :). They do not need to buy into Wikipedia in order to be happy with a source for sources. Thanks, GerardM
On 25 February 2011 07:04, CherianTinu Abraham <tinucherian@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=tinucherian@gmail.com
wrote:
Sanskrit Bharathi volunteers were generally keen on our Sanskrit Wikipedia. Arunram and others have conducted Wiki academies for them. Probably good idea to take them more into confidence with our movement.
While Kerala & TN governments have chosen to go with the Wikipedia, it is sad that Karnataka government is always trying to reinvent the wheel. May be we are not reaching out with them properly.
It may be a good idea to set up a Chapter task force for government liaisons and policy making, which includes those folks who have done these kind of stuff successfully more than those who have contacts.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Naveen B M <naveenbm@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=naveenbm@gmail.com
wrote:
From the state budget speech here ( http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm), it appears this is a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi
- To develop Sanskrit Wikipedia, Rs 1 crore would be provided as
a grant to Sanskrit Bharathi.
Naveen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig <hpnadig@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hpnadig@gmail.com
wrote:
Just checked with my sources in the government - and what I hear is that the allocated funds *isn't* for Sanskrit Wikipedia, but a project "on the lines" of Sanskrit Wikipedia, but perhaps with editing control.
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Prashanth NS <prashanth.ns@gmail.comhttp://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prashanth.ns@gmail.com
wrote:
Yea. I remember that announcement 2 years back and then it got converted into an internal project.
But, a good opportunity for advocacy here. Perhaps some chapter members should meet the department officials and try and get co-opted into the decision-making process. Often, it is lack of information and trust that scares them. Unlike 2 years, back with the chapter in place and most of us quite well networked, we should get involved closely and see if we can get them to invest in improving the sanskrit and kananda wikis.
The government usually prefers a project with editing control rather than one without any direct control over content decisions made.
-- Hari Prasad Nadig
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