gokul,
you say you are 60 years old and i guess you may not have read history as you have dismissed history as being `far far from truth'.
in medeival times, non-brahmins were barred from even hearing a word of sanskrit leave alone learning it. even brahmin women were treated as `non-brahmin'. if any non-brahmin heard it, a severe and exemplary punishement was given. that was the time when all knowledge was held in sanskrit and that knowledge was also basis of caste syestem in Indian sub continent which had inhuman practice of untouchability. other contribution of this mother of all languages was sati wherein a woman is burn alive along with her husband's body.
now, that is recorded by all historians. and you are trying to mislead the community by brushing aside these historical facts.
as an Indian i see absolutely no use for Sanskrit and in my view it needs a safe burial. but if wikipedia seeks to have a knowledge base in that language, i dont object.
my only objection is seeking govt funding for the project. it is immoral to feed this language the money of tax payers many of whom were possibly its victims.
please start reading history, it is not too late. in earlier mails i have sent a random list of books and i will suggest some more in the future.
by the way, Bhagavd Gita is the first ever justification of war between brothers.
regards
From: gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com>
Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>
Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 9:55 AM
Hi all,
It is amusing to see this much hatred for the "Language of Gods"
and equally amusing to experience the reciprocation from another wikian.
Any amount of argument may not change the deep rooted beliefs but this kind of feeling and expressions are not healthy among elites.
Show me the proof (Sanskrit as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity).It is very harsh and needs authenticity.It is as harsh and strong
as my hatred for anything "American" which is baseless but a fact.
So let the healthy debate continue,let us not censor or switch off
individuals.It is a free world anybody can have any opinion on any issue.
Love & Regards.
Gokuldas
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> wrote:
|
hello..enticity
it is interesting to see personal love and devotion for sanskrit is over riding its role as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity. it is interesting that a smoke screen is being created on historical facts. hope no attempt will be made to serve truth on piece mean basis. for, it will strike back and how.e
take care Basavaraj N Itnal
From: gokul das < gokuldas.1950@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
Hi All, It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically educated
elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to answer? Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to say! On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit
for not more than a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the "Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or opportunity
provided by Wiki. Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and reflect.
I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all. Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> wrote:
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hi folks,
just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all?
the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them
tell me what i can do to help.
regards
From: Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>
Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
|
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising, if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
From: gokul das <gokuldas.1950@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>
Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is not bull! It is worth reading and
interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> wrote:
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prateek,
i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out sources of such insinuations.
your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks.
the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points earlier.
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>
Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium..
The same follows here.. its understood..
Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs... Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream to have a free run here...
Regards,
Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> wrote:
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hi arun and co, how r u guys doing?
Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki, i continue to post.
now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism interns on their first day;
1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of this country. In fact, your learning has just begun.
2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/ world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points rather than go without any viewpoints.
3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements.
4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the story get it checked by your peers.
Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that.
Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding. All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with
1. Indian History by Romila Thapar
2. Indian History by Percieval Spear
3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra
4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre
5. Discovery of India by Nehru
6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia
7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia
8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia
...this list can go on. more later.
regards
From: Arun Ramarathnam < arunram25@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> wrote:
| explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in sanskrit and govt funding to it? |
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
- The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it)
- Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society.
The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the following:
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes, where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
|
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say, "Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is still a WIP).
Thanks
Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India" <wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikimedia.org>, "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal@yahoo.com>
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the scope if this list.
It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you further:
Thank you
Arun
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