Hi Gokul ,
I agree with you .
Best Regards
Saroj Sahoo
iLSSS
Reach me @ <http://www.mybantu.com/> myBantu
From: wikimedia-in-blr-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of gokul das
Sent: 06 March 2011 15:26
To: Basavaraj Itnal
Cc: IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
Hi all,
It is amusing to see this much hatred for the "Language of Gods"
and equally amusing to experience the reciprocation from another wikian.
Any amount of argument may not change the deep rooted beliefs but this kind
of feeling and expressions are not healthy among elites.
Show me the proof (Sanskrit as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of
humanity).It is very harsh and needs authenticity.It is as harsh and strong
as my hatred for anything "American" which is baseless but a fact.
So let the healthy debate continue,let us not censor or switch off
individuals.It is a free world anybody can have any opinion on any issue.
Love & Regards.
Gokuldas
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com>
wrote:
hello..enticity
it is interesting to see personal love and devotion for sanskrit is over
riding its role as a vehicle for inhuman treatment of humanity. it is
interesting that a smoke screen is being created on historical facts. hope
no attempt will be made to serve truth on piece mean basis. for, it will
strike back and how.e
take care
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, gokul das <gokuldas.1950(a)gmail.com> wrote:
From: gokul das <gokuldas.1950(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
To: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com>
Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore"
<wikimedia-in-blr(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 2:25 AM
Hi All,
It encourages me to know that someone has the time to read and
reflect on my writings in this forum.I have never experienced this feeling
before. It is great. I am past 60 and probably every professional journalist
would have had this experience in their late teens or early twenties.You see
how professions keep us human beings far away from experiencing some simple
common happy feelings for more than 40 years.Is it not silly? But whom to
blame? Our classified knowledge system? Our universities? Our historically
educated
elite society?Can somebody answer?Or is it a too complicated question to
answer?
Well ! Hold on Gokul ! You are deviating from what you wanted to
say!
On relevance of Sanskrit in India : Whole of 60 years of my
existence on this planet I would have thought of Sanskrit for not more than
a few hours,but somehow I have embedded a strong space in my mind that the
"Science of Sanskrit" is unbeatable, probably better may be the Chinese
script where the meaning is figuratively created by letters.You see Wiki
had given me an opportunity to write on a highly revered subject without
having any knowledge about Sanskrit or Mandarin.Is it the power or
opportunity
provided by Wiki.
Well! over the years, I was trying to read and understand Bahawad
Gita . My intensely focused attempt gave me very different meaning and
insights every time on the same lines of my reading.Is it meant to be like
that? Is it how the language Sanskrit is designed by the inventors of the
language? Is that the way Sanskrit is supposed to evolve? Is it the way
every language is supposed to evolve?
My day is calling me out.I hope Arun will read this post and
reflect. I shall come to this platform some other time.Hail Wiki !! Hail
that Australian in UK on bail ! Love and regards to all.
Gokuldas
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
wrote:
hi folks,
just an interesting extension of gokul's logic. if all history is `far far
far' from truth, why should wikipedia carry any articles of historical
topics at all? doesnt Wikipedia respect truth? further extension of the same
logic; the articles on current affairs would be history tomorrow and all
history is anyways far far from truth, so why bother wrting for wiki at all?
the truth you can ignore history, history doesnt ignore u. we need to get
experts from all historical perspectives not just one or two. we need
constitutional experts to guide us. they wont come to us as most of them
have crossed 80yrs, we have to go to them
tell me what i can do to help.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
wrote:
From: Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
To: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore"
<wikimedia-in-blr(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime
dia.org> >
Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 3:17 AM
that's an interesting PoV on history, gokul. but that does not mean we
should brush aside history and start writing fallacies. one should say that
after reading history not without reading reading it. i am worried that many
wikipedians are college going (especially IT courses) and they just have no
time to read but take fancy to wiki and put up articles based on some
weblinks. how often have they invited neutarl historians, political
observers and constitutional experts to their meet ups? these young people
have assumed that they are experts to themselves! i am not just criticising,
if they genuinely have any interest, i can organise talks..
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, gokul das <gokuldas.1950(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com> >
wrote:
From: gokul das <gokuldas.1950(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gokuldas.1950@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India"
<wikimedia-in-blr(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime
dia.org> >
Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 1:12 PM
Hi All,
No history is authentic. Written history depends on the author's
upbringing,his imagination ,his social background , his ethnic background
and so many other backgrounds. So,History is far, far, far away
from truth and so are the interpretations of the reader of History.But it is
not bull! It is worth reading and
interpreting to suit the reader's fancy.That is about the authenticity of
History as a subject. Mind you, I am a trained scienceman and my mind works
in this fashion.
Gokuldas
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
wrote:
prateek,
i dont where this comment on personal vendetta comes from. we must root out
sources of such insinuations.
your comment that wiki is far more neutral than many news channels comes
from a lopsided comparision. news channels and news papers are run extremely
transparently and continously face public scrutiny - elements wiki lacks.
the concept of neutrality in wiki is formulated from a PoV and that PoV
tends to buldoze indigenous PoVs. i have elaborated on most of these points
earlier.
thanks.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com> >
wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India"
<wikimedia-in-blr(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime
dia.org> >
Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:40 AM
Dear Basavaraj,
Fully agree with you when you speak about Mass Medium..
The same follows here.. its understood..
Wikipedia must not be used for personal vendetta... whenever a good
contributor adds/edits articles in wiki he will certainly add refs...
Wikipedia should not be used to post rubbish theories which have no basis
and references...
We too have a pretty good knowledge of what happens around us... I
appreciate your concern that vandals may spoil reputation of Wikipedia and
make some articles too one-sided.... there are thousands of other users who
are their to monitor what others are doing... Its not that easy to have a
free run in Wikipedia... With more number of people editing truth will
surely prevail after sometime as you see internet world is not that
developed and matured..
I personally think that Wikipedia is more neutral than scores and scores of
News Channels we have in India... I say this because there is no
accountability there... you cannot reverse what you have said there...MOST
are owned directly or indirectly by corporates who tweak news in a manner
they want it to be... you surely would have heard about how alarming PAID
NEWS is these days... The Election Commission has spoken in detail about
it... This cannot happen here at all! That's the point... If any vandal is
screwing up some article... making unsubstantiated allegations... Editors in
Wiki will set it right... I am sure... as time passes Wikipedia will have
many many more editors who can keep Wikipedia clean from Vandals who dream
to have a free run here...
Regards,
Prateek Ramachandra.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
wrote:
hi arun and co, how r u guys doing?
Since we dont seem to have a mailing list to discuss ethical issues of wiki,
i continue to post.
now lemme try to tell all of you something what i normally tell journalism
interns on their first day;
1. Only becoz you have an access to a mass medium of expression, do not
think you are wiser than any poor illeterate farmer in the last village of
this country. In fact, your learning has just begun.
2. Access to a mass medium is a great opportunity to learn. When i started
reading Indian/world history along with various views on it and Indian/
world polity, most of today's college kids were not even born but i am yet
to form a decisive commentery. so it is better to carry all view points
rather than go without any viewpoints.
3. Whatever be the story, understand social context before putting it up for
public consumption. Every story exists only in a social context and without
social relevance even the best stories can serve anti-soical elements.
4. No story is written. All stories are re-written. So before publishing the
story get it checked by your peers.
Having said that, i must remind all of you that if wikipedians are not
discussing the social relevance of what they are doing, they should start
doing so. It is pointless being wikipedian or being anybody, unless you
understand the social context. And dont think that they had no sense of
context before starting Wiki Foundation. They had, but have you asked them
what it was? Ask them, find an answer and then see if it compliments Indian
context. The idea of wikipedia is not concieved in vaccum so dont blindly
jump into the band wagon. There must be a reason why wiki keeps its editors
and admins anonymous even when India has thousands of learned men and women
who never say anything anonymously - however risky it would be to say that.
Often the findings may not suit our ego but ego blocks your understanding.
All wikipedians must read Indian history. you may begin with
1. Indian History by Romila Thapar
2. Indian History by Percieval Spear
3. Indian Independance Movement by Bipin Chandra
4. Freedom at midnight by Dominique lappierre
5. Discovery of India by Nehru
6. Intervals in Politics by Ram Manohar Lohia
7. Caste System by Ram Manohar Lohia
8. Wheels of History by Ram Manohar Lohia
...this list can go on. more later.
regards
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com> > wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
To: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
Cc: "IndiaMailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore"
<wikimedia-in-blr(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime
dia.org> >
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 2:06 PM
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
wrote:
explain. how social relevance of sanskrit is out of scope of wiki in
sanskrit and govt funding to it?
Basavaraj,
You must differentiate between the following:
* The social relevance of Sanskrit in India (as you put it)
* Impact of Wikipedia in Sanskrit to society.
The first topic, I maintain is beyond the scope of this list. It is to wide
a topic.
As far as the second one goes, Wikipedia in Sanskrit is too small to discuss
this now.
If you question was with regards to the process followed to start a
wikipedia in a language (like Sankrit or any other), you are referred to the
following:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee
As you can see from the links above, there *are* active discussions before a
wikipedia project is created.
do you guys discuss social relavance of what you are doing at all? if yes,
where? if no, that is a grave ommission.
I urge you to consider spending some time understanding how wikipedia works
and the processes behind it before coming to conclusions on some aspects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Wikipedia has evolved over 10 years. It did not become a phenomenon just
like that. There surely is a "method" to most things, even if it doesn't
seem very apparent to some. And these methods keep improving. You too can
contribute to bettering these while participating in the processes and
experiencing them.
A lot of links and references have been shared on this thread. Hope it helps
you form your views on the processes behind wikipedia. And as they say,
"Rome was not built in one day"! In this case it took 10 years (and it is
still a WIP).
Thanks
Arun
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com> > wrote:
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arunram25@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India"
<wikimedia-in-blr(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime
dia.org> >, "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Basavaraj,
The social relevance of Sanskrit in India, is not a topic that is in the
scope if this list.
It is a much larger topic.
As far as your observations on factual inaccuracies of some articles, that
is certainly something you can take up on the talk page of the respective
wiki page. There may be more knowledgeable contributors on the subject who
can comment on it.
Could you also please refer the following links or pages that may assist you
further:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er
ror
Thank you
Arun
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
wrote:
this is about social relevance of sanskrit to India. and some concomitant
errenous insertions.
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com> >
wrote:
From: Prateek Ramachandra <prateek.vr(a)gmail.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=prateek.vr@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in & from Bangalore, India"
<wikimedia-in-blr(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime
dia.org> >
Cc: "Basavaraj Itnal" <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
Guys... what are we discussing here??? Please stop discussing about
non-relevant topics... focus on sanskrit wiki... please start another
discussion if anyone has anything else to say...
I
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Basavaraj Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
wrote:
correct version of lingayatism as opposed to brahmanicised version on wiki..
http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Lingayat-Religion-and-Expressive-Cult
ure.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hubli/Lingayat-is-an-independent-rel
igion-Mate-Mahadevi/articleshow/7231849.cms
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/134566/veerashaivas-urged-register-linga
yats.html
Basavaraj N Itnal
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Gautam John <gautam(a)prathambooks.org
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> >
wrote:
From: Gautam John <gautam(a)prathambooks.org
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gautam@prathambooks.org> >
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] ToI
front page: Rs 1 cr
for Sanskrit WP
To: "Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians
in & from Bangalore,
India" <wikimedia-in-blr(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wikimedia-in-blr@lists.wikime
dia.org> >
Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 11:30 AM
On 26 February 2011 16:57, Basavaraj
Itnal <basavarajitnal(a)yahoo.com
<http://us.mc1137.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=basavarajitnal@yahoo.com> >
wrote:
wiki has to recognise and be sensitive to these
concerns.
It is, in it's content drawing on it's policies of being
an
encyclopedia and being neutral. These are very powerful
pillars that
promote neutrality of points of view.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam
________
http://social.prathambooks.org/
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