Sorry if I am answering to the wrong thread about gender policing in Singapore.
- handoko
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 00:55 Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 8:27 AM Mina Theofilatou saintfevrier@gmail.com wrote:
Hi and thanks a lot for your email!
You are most welcome.
You also raised some super interesting topics and gave me insights in your activities and Wikimania scholarship decisions I really appreciate.
I hope you do not mind this email remaining public as I really feel it is an important topic at least as much as your friend does! I hope Butch does also.
This friend is not involved in the Wikimedia movement, she would be a "novice". I talked to her about Wikimania - she can self-fund herself whereas sadly I can't - and she raised some concerns.
OK - but at least you got the scholarship so you are certain you will be there? I see you are not really contributing much to Wikimedia yourself also https://guc.toolforge.org/?by=date&user=Saintfevrier Interesting that you have been selected for a Scholarship anyway again and again...is this 4th Wikimania for you?
I hope few people from our QW2023 team are there as one of 3 topics is Diversity. For now I did not hear anyone got a scholarship.
The others I was able to address (respect for privacy e.g. by wearing the special tag that photos are not desirable) but this one had me wondering. I told her she could sign up for the mailing lists but she preferred the discussion went through me. She's quite sensitive with her personal data, perhaps too much so, but of course I respect her hesitation.
I see. What do you think makes her so sensitive? Was she experiencing some kind of trauma? Most adult LGBT+ people did in one way or another.
It so happens that I have done a lot of reading on the issue, for totally different reasons, and I can confirm that incidents have occured in settings where an individual who is male on all accounts (physical features) enters a female space (restrooms, lockers) by self-identifying as a woman and then proceeds to harass women using the space.
Interesting. Do you mind sharing the references to that literature? Maybe this is worth a Wikipedia article?
I'm not saying it's a frequent occurence, or that it will happen at Wikimania (haha she actually liked the name of the annual event :) but it is a valid concern that needs to be addressed, if the organisers want all participants to feel safe and comfortable.
I agree for valid concerns to be addressed whenever possible. I would love to learn how this can be proven valid.
In the past these issues would go by "rule of thumb": you see a man in the women's toilets, you report it. Now I'm confused: if you report it, would you be offending the gender access policy for the restrooms?
I do not know. I am queer identifying and male presenting, though not always and in the most patriarchal normative ways. I would not go around reporting people from just being around, but that is my choice as I feel I have no traumas with gender representation, but ideological ones with rightwing Croatian extremist who obducted the HR Wikipedia for decade and were visiting Wikimanias and CEE Meetings without WMF's intervention for a decade.
Self-identification can be tricky...
I am not sure what you mean. I think if people are not putting others in direct danger through action, usually I am OK with whatever they identify as long as it is legal (no Nazi symbols and similar..)
That said, I would be happy to participate in any discussions on the topic, provided I can fit them into my hectic schedule (more hectic than I care, which is one of the reasons I have not edited in quite a while...)
Indeed, maybe you should reconsider if you travel too much and edit too little and pass on the chance to others?
Thanks again :)
You are most welcome!
On Sat, 24 Jun 2023, 08:59 Željko Blaće, zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Hi Mina! I am not sure if we got to meet online, but I see you are Greek and involved in Outreach activities so I hope we will eventually even meet in person in the Balkans. Meanwhile I see you attended many Wikimanias and glad to see you have friendly friends who claim to be pro diversity and confortable with LGBTQ folx, so I am curious about the one you ask a question for. Is she not comfortable asking this question herself? Why do you think that is the case?
Queering Wikipedia 2023 event organizing team is planning offline events and we would like to have them welcoming to all well intendended and tolerant folx. I am curious to know which exact incidents of harassment by 'males who identify as women' do you refer to? Also as you think it is a valid concern, I would love to know why you think this could happen in Wikimania? Because people are mostly Wikipedians and Wikimedians? (hope your friend did not misunderstand the wikiMANIA part of the brand)
Unrelated to our context, do you and your friend think harassment happens because someone is not-cis? I would think it is mostly because those people are harassers and they are in bigger numbers as cis.
Thank you for your answers in advance!
Best Z. Blace
p.s. As a neo-nazi and right-wing militants attack victim (also known to be on their lists) I would love to raise concerns over tolerance for neo-nazi, right-wing and pro-gun militants in Wikimedia, but there was historically no or very little support for concrete work, so I would love for us to brainstorm at one point what makes sense to do, where and when.
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 8:23 PM Mina Theofilatou saintfevrier@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but on behalf of a friend who is considering attending I'd like to know about the policy on gendered restrooms in the conference venue. She is very comfortable with the LGBTQ community and celebrates diversity, but is concerned about the possibility of AMAB individuals who self-identify as women using the women's restrooms. I have been to several Wikimanias and I don't recall any related problems having occurred, but I do see that it is a vald concern as there have been incidients of harassment by males who identify as women in other public events.
Thanks, best wishes for a safe and fruitful Wikimania :)
On Fri, 23 Jun 2023, 20:22 Wikimania, wikimania@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the Wikimania Wiki https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel, with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at wikimania@wikimedia.org http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org if anything is unclear or incomplete.
To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see if yours is on the list!
Best,
*Butch Bustria*
On behalf of the Core Organizing Team _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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