On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 15:50, Sean Whitton sean@silentflame.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 20:09, Hani Morsi hani.morsi@gmail.com wrote:
Those of you in the "First world" are living where innovation, access and decent standards of living are already existent, and most politicians are already doing a pretty good job of messing up the world, so what openness do you speak of if cultural bridges are not built at the grassroots level? Why would we let our personal biases, ethnocentrism and fears of the different or uncomfortable cloud our visions of amazing opportunities for the promotion of potential platforms of global understanding? You can edit and read wikipedia all you like, you can be an open knowledge activist, or an arm chair promoter of openness, but if you shy away from going out and bumping your head against another culture/people/environment, dealing with, absorbing and learning from whatever is different in the process, then you should ask yourself if whatever you are doing is really meaningful. It is very simple really, you either go or you don't, but you will never really know unless you go. The way I see it, talk all you like about promotion of openness, freedom and access in conferences in the "First World", but if you're serious about it, go where it really matters now, go to the South/Third World/developing world...whatever you would like to call it. If you feel that uncomfortable with it, that is understandable and you should stay home or go somewhere similar to home, just don't call yourself and advocate of openness. To you, it is probably just it's just a hobby :), which is still fine by me.
I would like to contest this attitude that dedication to the various ideals we all hold as Wikimedians is only serious if people are willing to travel in the way you describe. Sure, there is a lot to be gained from such exposure, and I don't deny it. But not everyone is as brave as we might like, and for some such a trip is a lot more difficult than it is for others. I don't know if I could do it. But that doesn't mean that I am any less devoted than people who have been to the ideals of freedom that we are aiming to spread. I'm just not as good at travelling as they are :-)
I think that there is truth in both visions, actually. Being a seasoned traveler myself, in all kinds of settings (from sleeping under a tarp in a wild canyon far away from civilization to staying in 5 stars hotels), I can understand both Majorly's and Hani's vision of "travelling" and meeting the world and I believe I understand both their reactions.
I agree with you Sean, though, that there is no such strong relation between being "open" in the sense of our projects and being "open" to travel around the world and attend a conference. They are simply two different things.
What I think was the point here, is not so much *where* Wikimania was, but rather what expectations were formed as to how the Wikimania team(s) could help the attendees.
To some extent, I believe those expectations were simply wrong. I believe that some attendees were simply expecting too much from a conference organizing team to start with. A conference, wiki or not, is not a travelling agency that takes care of everything and makes sure you're accompanied all day long in your ventures. Mind you, I also believe that we (the Wikimania team) probably raised expectations a bit too much, pressured by a somewhat controversed welcome of Wikimania in Egypt in the first place, as well as the "wiki" spirit of collaboration. Sometimes, you have to learn to say "sorry, we can't" and that's something we did not do well.
I have read everyone's comments with interest, whether negative or positive, and my conclusion is that Wikimania, as any other travel destination/conference/event-some-place-other-than-home will never (ever) satisfy everyone, and it is good so. Because diversity does not only mean "people from everywhere with different backgrounds in a different place", it also means "people with different life experiences and opinions". Frankly, I would be very sad if Wikimania ever prompted any kind of NPOV at the end of it, for lack of strong feelings and opinions about it. I'd say that's where we've started to fail.
So thank you all for your comments, and know that adventure can be around your street corner. Also.
Cheers,
Delphine