On Nov 9, 2007 12:03 PM, Daniel R. Tobias <dan(a)tobias.name> wrote: Reflecting on this debate, we all know there are some users who are just about causing drama and not here to build an encyclopaedia. There are also some users who are just about propounding their own views and not here to build an encyclopaedia. Then there are some users who, while they have an abrasive approach, want to make a better encyclopaedia. The missing consideration is that sometimes, users in this latter group move into either of the first two based on their experiences. And, that includes their experiences with admins. All admins should consider the actual effect of admin actions and of talk page messages on the user who receives them. An admonition to 'please behave better and think of others' allows the recipient the choice of complying or not. A comment that 'you are a disruptive troll and are on your way to an indefinite block' does not. I find that the best way of making obsessive editors more constructive is to give them things to do. In other words, "you can have claim X in the article if you can prove to me it's significant - bring me some mainstream sources for it". Every hour this editor spends looking for the source is an hour spent in possible improvement of the encyclopaedia, and an hour not spent disrupting things. -- Sam Blacketer London E15