On 5 Jun 2006 at 13:53, "Selina ." wikipediareview@gmail.com wrote:
Racism is illegal and as well as the editor puts Wikipedia in a bad position. If people can't put bigotry aside and instead try to force articles into their personal view of the world, it's right to ban them.
How is racism illegal? Racism is a belief system, and unless you have a regime that prosecutes thought-crimes, it can't be made illegal. Certain forms of speech or action that are racially- related, and perhaps motivated by racism, are illegal in certain places, though the free-speech protections of some countries' constitutions place sharp limits on the criminalization of pure speech without action in those places, including the United States.
On 06/06/06, Daniel R. Tobias dan@tobias.name wrote:
On 5 Jun 2006 at 13:53, "Selina ." wikipediareview@gmail.com wrote:
Racism is illegal and as well as the editor puts Wikipedia in a bad position. If people can't put bigotry aside and instead try to force articles into their personal view of the world, it's right to ban them.
How is racism illegal? Racism is a belief system, and unless you have a regime that prosecutes thought-crimes, it can't be made illegal. Certain forms of speech or action that are racially- related, and perhaps motivated by racism, are illegal in certain places, though the free-speech protections of some countries' constitutions place sharp limits on the criminalization of pure speech without action in those places, including the United States.
-- == Dan == Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/ Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/ Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/
Maybe you don't have laws against it with your happy little "patriotic" organisations like the KKK, but in civilised countries like the UK and Germany (for just two examples) racism/hate speech is illegal. Get used it it, the US is simply backwards in most social issues compared to the rest of the world (another example could be the prudishly religious aspects that's not so far off from the Puritans)
On 6/6/06, Selina . wikipediareview@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe you don't have laws against it with your happy little "patriotic" organisations like the KKK, but in civilised countries like the UK and Germany (for just two examples) racism/hate speech is illegal.
Technicaly no. In the UK incitement to racial hatred is illegal but there is no law against being racist or generalised hate speach (you could for example say whatever you like about chess players).
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 12:04:35PM +0100, Selina . wrote:
Maybe you don't have laws against it with your happy little "patriotic" organisations like the KKK, but in civilised countries like the UK and Germany (for just two examples) racism/hate speech is illegal. Get used it it, the US is simply backwards in most social issues compared to the rest of the world (another example could be the prudishly religious aspects that's not so far off from the Puritans)
-- Selina -
That some countries punish thoughtcrime is not surprising. That some people are proud of the fact that their countries don't pass laws forbidding people to think particular thoughts is not surprising either.
sean@epoptic.com wrote:
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 12:04:35PM +0100, Selina . wrote:
Maybe you don't have laws against it with your happy little "patriotic" organisations like the KKK, but in civilised countries like the UK and Germany (for just two examples) racism/hate speech is illegal. Get used it it, the US is simply backwards in most social issues compared to the rest of the world (another example could be the prudishly religious aspects that's not so far off from the Puritans)
That some countries punish thoughtcrime is not surprising. That some people are proud of the fact that their countries don't pass laws forbidding people to think particular thoughts is not surprising either.
The discussion is not about thoughtcrimes. It is about hate *speech* which is a different matter. The U.S. is actually violating an UN resoltion by not passing hate speech laws.
See: http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/ccpr.htm#art20
And the UN is going to enforce that on the US how, exactly?
On 6/6/06, Raphael Wegmann raphael@psi.co.at wrote:
sean@epoptic.com wrote:
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 12:04:35PM +0100, Selina . wrote:
Maybe you don't have laws against it with your happy little "patriotic" organisations like the KKK, but in civilised countries like the UK and Germany (for just two examples) racism/hate speech is illegal. Get used it it, the US is simply backwards in most social issues compared to the rest of the world (another example could be the prudishly religious aspects that's not so far off from the Puritans)
That some countries punish thoughtcrime is not surprising. That some people are proud of the fact that their countries don't pass laws forbidding people to think particular thoughts is not surprising either.
The discussion is not about thoughtcrimes. It is about hate *speech* which is a different matter. The U.S. is actually violating an UN resoltion by not passing hate speech laws.
See: http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/ccpr.htm#art20
-- Raphael Wegmann _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 6/6/06, Raphael Wegmann raphael@psi.co.at wrote:
The discussion is not about thoughtcrimes. It is about hate *speech* which is a different matter. The U.S. is actually violating an UN resoltion by not passing hate speech laws.
The UN does not make the laws for the U.S. And besides, the U.S. 'does' have certain laws and precedents that limit the freedom of speech (including "hate speech"). And while Americans can say and hold racist things, enciting people to violence based on these things is prohibited. --LV
On 6/6/06, Lord Voldemort lordbishopvoldemort@gmail.com wrote:
The UN does not make the laws for the U.S. And besides, the U.S. 'does' have certain laws and precedents that limit the freedom of speech (including "hate speech"). And while Americans can say and hold racist things, enciting people to violence based on these things is prohibited.
See [[fighting words]]. A judicially recognised limitation to freedom of speech under the US Constitution.
On 6/6/06, Stephen Bain stephen.bain@gmail.com wrote:
See [[fighting words]]. A judicially recognised limitation to freedom of speech under the US Constitution.
Bingo. Plus many other 1st Amendment SC cases. It's an actually very nuanced right. --LV
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 03:38:24PM +0200, Raphael Wegmann wrote:
sean@epoptic.com wrote:
That some countries punish thoughtcrime is not surprising. That some people are proud of the fact that their countries don't pass laws forbidding people to think particular thoughts is not surprising either.
The discussion is not about thoughtcrimes. It is about hate *speech* which is a different matter. The U.S. is actually violating an UN resoltion by not passing hate speech laws.
See: http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/ccpr.htm#art20
-- Raphael Wegmann
No, the discussion is about the legality of /racism/. No one mentioned hate speech until you brought it up. Please try to stay on topic.
On 6/6/06, Selina . wikipediareview@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe you don't have laws against it with your happy little "patriotic" organisations like the KKK, but in civilised countries like the UK and Germany (for just two examples) racism/hate speech is illegal. Get used it it, the US is simply backwards in most social issues compared to the rest of the world (another example could be the prudishly religious aspects that's not so far off from the Puritans)
Ah, Selina. You thought we needed another example of why you got banned?
-Matt