Sorry about that Jimbo - I clearly have not made a study of Ayn Rand, and my analysis was based entirely on my reading of Atlas Shrugged in college. If I've got her entirely wrong, I'm sorry, but I don't think that I am the only one who sees her writing being used to support a social construct that, while certainly forcing people to take the blame for their own actions, it also seemed that there was a lot of "not my problem" in it. Maybe I'll give it another try.
JHK
I think you have it right Julie. She's an engaging writer but you have the problem pegged pretty well, in short, a set of blinders.
Fred
From: "Julie Kemp" juleskemp@yahoo.com Reply-To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:03:17 -0700 To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] apologies to Jimbo re Ms. Rand with text
Sorry about that Jimbo I clearly have not made a study of Ayn Rand, and my analysis was based entirely on my reading of Atlas Shrugged in college. If I¹ve got her entirely wrong, I¹m sorry, but I don¹t think that I am the only one who sees her writing being used to support a social construct that, while certainly forcing people to take the blame for their own actions, it also seemed that there was a lot of ³not my problem² in it. Maybe I¹ll give it another try.
JHK
Re: [WikiEN-l] apologies to Jimbo re Ms. Rand with text>>Fred: I think you have it right Julie. She's an engaging writer but you have the >>problem pegged pretty well, in short, a set of blinders.
Such is philosphy. Rand, as I understand her -- and the way her name has since been used (exploited) by a former partner of hers who does not share her... depth -- is that she was held up as emblematic of a former Soviet Block turned Capitalist American success story -- and this was her access to American culture at the time. Kinda like listening to Arnold Schwarzeneggers 'deep thoughts' on American poltics, etc. For an immigrant *not to renounce their socialist, communist, whatever... roots and embrace fully the 'conservative' American ethic -- would mean that you were'nt paying your political dues like all good immigrants should. Hence the 'conservatism' among Hispanics, Asians, etc... Freedom... woohoo! This is the general context that I think of Rand -- as sincere as she sounded -- she was still just a woman trying to make a life in conformist-era USA.
But more importantly, as all who wax philosophical should be taken with a grain of salt -- the size of that grain often depends on what the feeling is -- based on what some of the people who adhere to that 'philosophy' -- hence, when I take a look at the Ayn Rand Institutes' website and see a bunch of nonsense on there, my grain of salt reminds me that what these people -- supposed loyalists to Ayn Rand -- write, isn't necessarily what she, herself would have said. In fact, understanding the controversy within her following about who exactly is running her foundation -- who's bearing the torch, and is he doing a good job -- it seems as if this is really a tragic case where people are using her name and her much-lauded intellect to justify anything from welfare gutting to deportation and so on.
The *real message that I get from what little I've read of her -- is a kind of silent thread -- (A silent theme, perhaps, because of where she writing all of this ) -- that despite how terrible it was where she came from, its not really ideological differences that lead to that -- rather the unyielding adherence to an ideology that makes people blind. Her intuitive navigating, despite having the old blinders on (as mentioned by Fred) is what resonates with people. We all live with our own respective blinders on. To communicate from the point of view of absolute clarity doesnt always resonate well. Thats my limited sense of it.
-SM
"Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune." Noam Chomsky
Sorry about that Jimbo I clearly have not made a study of Ayn Rand, and my analysis was based entirely on my reading of Atlas Shrugged in college. If I¹ve got her entirely wrong, I¹m sorry, but I don¹t think that I am the only one who sees her writing being used to support a social construct that, while certainly forcing people to take the blame for their own actions, it also seemed that there was a lot of ³not my problem² in it. Maybe I¹ll give it another try.
JHK
Stevertigo wrote:
But more importantly, as all who wax philosophical should be taken with a grain of salt -- the size of that grain often depends on what the feeling is -- based on what some of the people who adhere to that 'philosophy' -- hence, when I take a look at the Ayn Rand Institutes' website and see a bunch of nonsense on there, my grain of salt reminds me that what these people -- supposed loyalists to Ayn Rand -- write, isn't necessarily what she, herself would have said. In fact, understanding the controversy within her following about who exactly is running her foundation -- who's bearing the torch, and is he doing a good job -- it seems as if this is really a tragic case where people are using her name and her much-lauded intellect to justify anything from welfare gutting to deportation and so on.
This is typical of disciples. One of my favorite Nietzche quotes has always been, "There are no Christians alive today, the last one died on the cross." Just wait until Jimbo's disciples start quoting him after he's gone. He may never recognize himself when he resurrects. :-)
Ec
This is typical of disciples. One of my favorite Nietzche quotes has always been, "There are no Christians alive today, the last one died on the cross." Just wait until Jimbo's disciples start quoting him after he's gone. He may never recognize himself when he resurrects. :-)
Ec
I swear, the whole Dalai Lama idea makes sense to me now... If the messenger reincarnates -- there is no post-mortem distortion of their words... noone can get up with a new interpretation of a dead man's words... the man is alive in front of you -- in the form of a child.
But, I always speak from ignorance, of course. ;)
-SM
--- Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
This is typical of disciples. One of my favorite Nietzche quotes has always been, "There are no Christians alive today, the last one died on the cross."
Ec
Jesus was Jewish. There never were any good christians, only Jews.
-LDan
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--- Stevertigo stevertigo@attbi.com wrote:
Jesus was Jewish. There never were any good christians, only Jews. -LDan
Say what young man? Surely you mispeak in haste.
-St. Stephen
It's true. I consulted the Catholic Encyclopedia.
Jesus was a terrible jew at that. He was always going around claiming he was god, and stealing sayings (as well as fables about accomplishments) from past Jews like Hillel.
For hundreds of years, Christianity was merely a sect of Judiasm.
--LDan
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
It's true. I consulted the Catholic Encyclopedia.
Jesus was a terrible jew at that. He was always going around claiming he was god, and stealing sayings (as well as fables about accomplishments) from past Jews like Hillel.
For hundreds of years, Christianity was merely a sect of Judiasm.
--LDan
Ah, I shall have to "turn the other cheek" to you on that one, Dan. You speak either from haste, youth, ignorance or all three - Ill let Hanlons Razor deal with you.
Speak of religion no more, YoungDan - until you ever actually have a religious experience. Your traditions may call you a man at 13, but most women wont call you one till youre 30.
All this is just a very nice and tender way of suggesting that you offer at least some humour in your insults -- otherwise they will be interpreted as "merely" insults.
-Shalom, child -Steven