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Hi all
I hate to have to bring this here, but I've had major annoyances with user 128.193.88.55. (furter referred to as '55')
Here's what happened:
1) 55 deleted various factual information from [[current events]] news stories. These facts (whether they are right or wrong) were stated as fact in the news stories that were linked to. These included publications such as CNN and the washington post. (witness the changes made by 55: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728672&a... and http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728706&a...)
2) 55 also made a few really bad quality POV edits of other peoples news stories (witness: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728646&a... and http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728668&a...)
3) I hence reverted 55's changes saying that they should be backed up by credible sources. (the factual information that 55 deleted being backed up in such a manner).
4) I then added 55 to [[Wikipedia:annoying users]], because i believe that it is important to be able to track users who make such qualitatively bad edits, and to tell others to keep an eye on them as well.
5) 55 deleted my comments about him/her from [[Wikipedia:annoying users]], saying that he/she had justified their claims on the current events talk page. Infact, the user only restated his opinion and did not give any outside sources to back up his edits: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Current_events&diff=0&a...
6)I moderated my original post on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]], and added another post asking 55 not to delete my posts.
7)55 deleted both my posts.
8) I moderated my posts again, adding a third one containing the bold sentence: "If you delete this a third time, I will report it to vandalism and make the suggestion of banning you to a sysop. --snoyes 17:41 Mar 7, 2003 (UTC)"
Here I am.
In summary, it does not matter as to who is factually correct on [[current events]], but rather that 55 deleted my legitimate messages on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]] about 6 times (and counting). Notice also that I did not put him/her on [[Vandalism in progress]], even though 55's deleting my posts on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]] clearly is vandalism.
Please give me your thoughts, and excuse me for taking so much of your time with this issue.
Best, Sascha Noyes - -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc - --
Sascha Noyes wrote:
- 55 also made a few really bad quality POV edits of other peoples news
stories (witness:
http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728646&a... =728640
and
http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728668&a... =728664)
I haven't followed this argument, but I feel I need to make a couple of quick points:
The first of these edits was not by 128.193.88.55, it was by another anon user (209.147.208.22). 55's edit was the one after this (removing the exclamation marks).
The second edit above was reverted by 128.193.88.55 him/herself. four minutes after the original edit.
I think the removal of "(Fidel Castro) is already the world's longest ruling [[head of government]], in power for 44 years." is valid. It makes it sound as though he is the longest *ever* serving head of government, which I doubt is true (although I don't know for sure either way, or whether he is the longest serving *current* head of government)
sannse
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It has been resolved rather amically, although I'm left with a rather bad aftertaste about nobody but myself (and Tarquin a bit) making a principled stand against users deleting other users signed comments. When I first joined I got the impression that certain users were even banned for this behaviour, and thought that such principles (in order to be principles) would have to be applied accross the board. This has not been the case, and I'm not happy.
Sascha Noyes
Sascha Noyes wrote:
It has been resolved rather amically, although I'm left with a rather bad aftertaste about nobody but myself (and Tarquin a bit) making a principled stand against users deleting other users signed comments. When I first joined I got the impression that certain users were even banned for this behaviour,
users were banned for *repeatedly* doing this, and putting words into other people's mouths. It seems to me that IP user thought the Vandalism page worked on a wiki principle like the articles -- ie "false alert, I'm not a vandal, so I'll remove it."
I'm glad its resolved. :-)
Let's be a bit slower to accuse vandalism in cases other than the obvious "poop", "this site sux" etc.
(hang on ... I'm Uncle Ed! Why am I trapped inside Tarquin's body?)
Sascha Noyes wrote:
It has been resolved rather amically, although I'm left with a rather bad aftertaste about nobody but myself (and Tarquin a bit) making a principled stand against users deleting other users signed comments.
It's very bad form for users to delete other users signed comments in the heat of a debate. Eventually, it does make sense to refactor some talk pages in an NPOV fashion, simply summarizing old arguments. Not many people ever do this on wikipedia, but it wouldn't be an offensive thing to happen in some cases.
(Of course, there's generally little harm to just making archival talk pages and leaving them there forever, and I personally wouldn't want to step into the hornets nest of refactoring old talk pages.)
When I first joined I got the impression that certain users were even banned for this behaviour, and thought that such principles (in order to be principles) would have to be applied accross the board. This has not been the case, and I'm not happy.
For ip numbers, we're more willing to ban than for signed in users, based on the simple principle that ip numbers tend to be "pure vandals" more often than signed in users.
In cases other than "pure vandals" (i.e. simply replacing text with curse words, or making obvious 'joke' edits to the detriment of a serious page, things like that), there are difficult judgments to be made, weighing a number of different factors. It's not unprincipled, but it is complex.
--Jimbo
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This user is now under the IP 128.193.88.225 and reverting [[Wikipedia:annoying users]] again, which now included a copy of this email. Can some sysop please do something. I feel like I'm 100% in the right and have no chance to defend myself if the person keeps deleting _MY_ messages from [[Wikipedia:annoying users]].
Best, Sascha Noyes
On Friday 07 March 2003 13:50, Sascha Noyes wrote:
Hi all
I hate to have to bring this here, but I've had major annoyances with user 128.193.88.55. (furter referred to as '55')
Here's what happened:
- 55 deleted various factual information from [[current events]] news
stories. These facts (whether they are right or wrong) were stated as fact in the news stories that were linked to. These included publications such as CNN and the washington post. (witness the changes made by 55: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728672&a... d=728668 and http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728706&a... d=728687)
- 55 also made a few really bad quality POV edits of other peoples news
stories (witness: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728646&a... d=728640 and http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728668&a... d=728664)
- I hence reverted 55's changes saying that they should be backed up by
credible sources. (the factual information that 55 deleted being backed up in such a manner).
- I then added 55 to [[Wikipedia:annoying users]], because i believe that
it is important to be able to track users who make such qualitatively bad edits, and to tell others to keep an eye on them as well.
- 55 deleted my comments about him/her from [[Wikipedia:annoying users]],
saying that he/she had justified their claims on the current events talk page. Infact, the user only restated his opinion and did not give any outside sources to back up his edits: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Current_events&diff=0&a... d=728788
6)I moderated my original post on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]], and added another post asking 55 not to delete my posts.
7)55 deleted both my posts.
- I moderated my posts again, adding a third one containing the bold
sentence: "If you delete this a third time, I will report it to vandalism and make the suggestion of banning you to a sysop. --snoyes 17:41 Mar 7, 2003 (UTC)"
Here I am.
In summary, it does not matter as to who is factually correct on [[current events]], but rather that 55 deleted my legitimate messages on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]] about 6 times (and counting). Notice also that I did not put him/her on [[Vandalism in progress]], even though 55's deleting my posts on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]] clearly is vandalism.
Please give me your thoughts, and excuse me for taking so much of your time with this issue.
Best, Sascha Noyes -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc
- -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc - --
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I have now added the incident of my posts on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]] being deleted to [[Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress]].
Sascha Noyes
On Friday 07 March 2003 15:11, Sascha Noyes wrote:
This user is now under the IP 128.193.88.225 and reverting [[Wikipedia:annoying users]] again, which now included a copy of this email. Can some sysop please do something. I feel like I'm 100% in the right and have no chance to defend myself if the person keeps deleting _MY_ messages from [[Wikipedia:annoying users]].
Best, Sascha Noyes
On Friday 07 March 2003 13:50, Sascha Noyes wrote:
Hi all
I hate to have to bring this here, but I've had major annoyances with user 128.193.88.55. (furter referred to as '55')
Here's what happened:
- 55 deleted various factual information from [[current events]] news
stories. These facts (whether they are right or wrong) were stated as fact in the news stories that were linked to. These included publications such as CNN and the washington post. (witness the changes made by 55: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728672&a... di d=728668 and http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728706&a... di d=728687)
- 55 also made a few really bad quality POV edits of other peoples news
stories (witness: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728646&a... di d=728640 and http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Current_events&diff=728668&a... di d=728664)
- I hence reverted 55's changes saying that they should be backed up by
credible sources. (the factual information that 55 deleted being backed up in such a manner).
- I then added 55 to [[Wikipedia:annoying users]], because i believe
that it is important to be able to track users who make such qualitatively bad edits, and to tell others to keep an eye on them as well.
- 55 deleted my comments about him/her from [[Wikipedia:annoying
users]], saying that he/she had justified their claims on the current events talk page. Infact, the user only restated his opinion and did not give any outside sources to back up his edits: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Current_events&diff=0&a... di d=728788
6)I moderated my original post on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]], and added another post asking 55 not to delete my posts.
7)55 deleted both my posts.
- I moderated my posts again, adding a third one containing the bold
sentence: "If you delete this a third time, I will report it to vandalism and make the suggestion of banning you to a sysop. --snoyes 17:41 Mar 7, 2003 (UTC)"
Here I am.
In summary, it does not matter as to who is factually correct on [[current events]], but rather that 55 deleted my legitimate messages on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]] about 6 times (and counting). Notice also that I did not put him/her on [[Vandalism in progress]], even though 55's deleting my posts on [[Wikipedia:annoying users]] clearly is vandalism.
Please give me your thoughts, and excuse me for taking so much of your time with this issue.
Best, Sascha Noyes -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc
-- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc
- -- Please encrypt all correspondence. PGP key available from: http://individual.utoronto.ca/noyes/snoyes.asc - --