Ray Saintonge wrote:
K P wrote:
Oh please, calling oneself a pimp as a user name and saying, "Gotta keep the pimp hand strong" is about as misogynist as it gets. Oh, wait, it goes one better. There's a "this user is a pimp" user box. I put it on my user page along with a thousand others, and no one gives a shit. It's cute and something that boys do, and all the boy's friends will slam down anyone who objects to the boy proudly displaying his misogyn--so I found out
You also might be less likely to be sensitive to it for obvious reasons. There are many things that men simply don't look twice at, that many women would find misogynist because they look at it from a different angle. I don't find the turning of "pimp" into an acceptable verb to be acceptable, mostly because the men who flaunt it seem to be using it in the old and more familiar sense, and are just taking advantage of, or lying about, its meaning in the vernacular. But many men I know who I don't think are misogynists, don't see anything offensive with "pimp my ride."
This says more about the evolution of language. Words adapt to the circumstances that use them. When you judge the word on the basis of the minority that flaunt it isn't that being just a little misandrian. Sure men look on these things differently, and wonder what all the fuss was about when women want to dwell upon something that was never intended. Being offended by the activities of the traditional pimp should not be equated with being offended by the use of the word.
My son for example doesn't find the expression "pimp my ride" and related expressions offensive, and thinks I'm over-reacting that I do find them offended--"It's the vernacular, Mom, that language you adore." Yet, he considers it offensive to call someone a pimp as a compliment.
Sounds like a normal kid. (age? - mine is 17) Then too dealing with real pimps has probably not been part of his personal experiences.
My comment wasn't really about this particular comment though, but that it's so common on Wikipedia for me to hear and come across obviously misogynist exchanges--and it's tiresome to hear announcements of it not being present, by those least likely to encounter it. It's no wonder there are so few women in the upper echelons on Wikipedia, imo, in a culture that is so damn accepting and ignorant of how it makes women outsiders.
It should tell you something that the majority of persons who have been elected the the Board by the community have been women. That's a neat trick to come from an electorate so full of misogynists.
I don't doubt that you have frequently encountered language on the part of others which you consider misogynistic. If it's coming from those "least likely to encounter it" you have disconnect more than you have misogyny. Not everybody is at the same place in the spectrum of gender politics. Those of us with experience in female dominated circumstances are not overly concerned about the gender of the person across the table from us. He or she is simply what he or she is. Gender relations falls apart when you start imputing misogynistic motives that were never there.
Ec
It's no wonder there are so few women in the upper echelons on Wikipedia, imo, in a culture that is so damn accepting and ignorant of how it makes women outsiders.
Many years ago, I started this page: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_WikiWomen
Largely outdated now, but recently, I added a picture there, that you can see on the top left hand side.
I will not comment on the "few women in the upper echelons of Wikipedia", but I can comment on the "very numerous women in the upper echelons of the Foundation". http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_2007_dungodung_79.jpg this is a picture taken at Wikimania, the first wikichix meeting.
From top, going to the right Sue Gardner, head of executive Henna, dev, from netherlands Phoebe, usa, leader of Wikimania 2006 and co-organiser of 2007 Frieda, italian, chair of Wikimedia Italy, board member of WMF Delphine, french, chapter coordinator of WMF Oooops, memory hole... Brianna, australia, wikicommons (keen I think) Another memory hole, shame on me. She is german and very involved in various Wikimedia Deutschland activity. Kat, usa, board member Aphaia, japanese, translation committee head Anthere, chair of WMF Sandy, communication manager
And I could cite many other good people missing here. Angela, previous board member, now chair of advisory board Sabine, new fundraising manager Elly, chair of Wikimedia Netherlands Alison, chair of Wikimedia UK
Why is that that women seem to drift away from editing proper, to deal with more "organization" matters ? Less bullshit probably. Less agressivity. Smaller groups where people know each other. Hard to say. But in the organization proper, I would say there is no mysogyny. If you want to join and help, there is a LOT to do :-)
Ant