On Feb 18, 2008 9:58 AM, Raphael Wegmann <wegmann(a)psi.co.at> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 09:14:37AM -0500, John Lee
wrote:
On Feb 18, 2008 8:15 AM, David Gerard
<dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 18/02/2008, Prasad J
<prasad59(a)gmail.com> wrote:
John Lee wrote:
> To a Muslim it is offensive to say Jesus is
God. It is offensive to
> view images of inappropriately clothed people. Muslims in Indonesia
> found the images in Playboy sufficiently offensive to riot over.
> Muslims in Malaysia frown on the usage of Muslim terminology in a
> non-Muslim context; the government has actually banned Malay-language
> Christian publications for using Malay words meaning "Allah",
"angel",
> etc. There are a lot of things people find offensive; there are a lot
> of things Muslims find offensive.
I think you need to remember that not all Muslims
are from the
Taliban, just as not all Christians are cross-burning Ku Klux
Klansmen. I studied in a Catholic school where several of our teachers
He's not speaking of some theoretical straw man, but of the actual
laws in his country.
I think it's ironic that being from a Muslim country and having Muslim
friends from many walks of life and of varying opinions, it is assumed
I need to be lectured about the diversity of viewpoints in the Muslim
community. I am merely pointing out that a significant and vocal
minority of Muslims hold certain beliefs very strongly, and that if we
are to accommodate one fringe group of Muslims, we don't seem to have
a significantly good reason not to accommodate another, and so forth.
I don't consider the group that rejects Muhammad images belonging
to a Muslim fringe. It rather seems to be a very mainstream custom
(at least among Sunni Muslims).
I was referring to the degree to which they are offended; only a small
but very vocal fringe is sufficiently offended to take to the streets.
I of course personally know many people offended by images of
Muhammad, and yes, an insinuation that their beliefs, such as that
Jesus is only a prophet, are wrong, but not sufficiently so to riot
over the situation.
I would also doubt that "a majority of
Muslims are educated, moderate,
cosmopolitan," considering most Muslims (like most of the world) don't
have access to a great deal of education, and live in mostly
developing countries. I don't doubt that the Fox News stereotype is
anything but false. What I do object to is an oversimplification of
the situation we are faced with, which I think most of us are doing. I
am a bit bemused that you (Prasad) compare the beliefs I have noted to
extremist Talibanism, because I personally know many wonderful people
far removed from the violence of the Taliban who still firmly and
fervently believe these things.
I wonder how you can keep a good relationship, if those people
feel offended whenever you mention, that you firmly believe
Jesus to be the son of God.
Refer to the above.
What about
"You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion." [109:6]?
And btw, we don't claim on WP that Jesus is God.
And we don't explicitly endorse publication of images of Muhammad; we
just publish them as a positive, not normative statement, just as we
positively state that some people believe Jesus is God, rather than
normatively stating he is or isn't God. That doesn't really help
things.
You've also ignored the more substantive example, I think, of
Indonesian Muslims rioting over the publication of Playboy in
Indonesia.
Johnleemk