Steve Vertigum wrote:
--- Adam Raizen araizen@newmail.net wrote:
Steve Vertigum wrote:
The statistics already exist; I don't have the means to do my own poll.
Huh?
Now it's just a question of whether to add them to Wikipedia, and if so, in what form and with what explanation.
Add what -- the new statistics that "already exist" but you cant find, or the backup ones from a controversial POV source?
I have no idea what you're talking about. I've only had one set of statistics since the beginning, and I've never said anything about not being able to find some statistics. I downloaded the spreadsheet from http://gis.cbs.gov.il/Website/Localities2001/Rashuyot_htm/profilExcel2001.xl... from the website of Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, which contains data on the local authorities in Israel from the end of 2001. From http://gis.cbs.gov.il/Website/Localities2001/Rashuyot_htm/hakdama-CBS-h_IE.h...: "This publication is a joint venture between the Central Bureau of Statistics and the Interior Ministry. In the publication there are physical data (population, education and welfare, infrastructure, etc.) and financial data (execution of the budget) concerning the local authorities in Israel for the year 2001."
So far, you're the only one to object,
No Im not. I came into this thread after a couple people raised questions.
Some people have raised questions, but so far you're the only one to object to using the statistics at all under any circumstances.
and not on any specific reason to distrust the statistics, but just on a general distrust of Israel. For the nth time, this will be explained in detail in an article linked to from the bot's articles.
This isnt good enough--you cant simply add statistics from Hamas and stipulate these with a buried link to an article which explains that "these stats may not be NPOV"
Actually, I expect that stats from Hamas would be acceptible, if Hamas collects statistics, if they're attributed on the page itself (as these will be), and with a link to additional explanation in a prominent place (as these will have). Whatever gave you the idea that the link would be "buried".
Ah. Such effortless effort should be noted for its notability.
What exactly are you objecting to?
The use of a bot to add Israeli government statistics, which we proved a few letters ago was not NPOV, and also was an apartheid state, which among decent thoughful people tends to raise a flag or two.
So you object to adding links to the home pages of the local authorities in question (since that what you were responding to)?
I'm not avoiding the issue. I've posted explanations of the demographic categories in a couple of different messages, and I'll expand upon that in the article which will be linked to from all the bot-generated articles. If you can't find the explanations, I'll collect them and repost them. If you have any specific objections, I'd like to hear them. If you have any specific questions that I haven't answered, ask away.
Im not the kind of guy to get sidetracked with specifics-- I am the kind to state some obvious things--that NPOV would be violated if we added POV-based data en masse. Add it by hand if you want-- let each stand up to scrutiny. As I understand it, in Israel-- even the names of towns and cities is a often a question of POV.
Of course, it will be a very simple matter to have a bot go around and correct/update these articles, if needed (much simpler than creating the articles in the first place).
I love how you say "we can take care of it easy and simple"--just sign on the line--- You sound like a politician, young man.
"We're" not pinching
our collective nose at anything. I think that you need a better objection than just a general dislike for Israel.
Its not a "general dislike" --(dont start that pottytalk with me--or at least use LD's <rant> tags)-- its an nose for the smell of POV disguised as a field of "statistics", boosted en mass, up the rear end of the WP. The WP does'nt necessarily object to this course of entry, provided the proper prophylactic measures have been secured. (We dont want to catch any POV in other words) You could might as well name it the POV-BOT, since were all friends here.
WikiLove be upon you and your progeny, ~S~
Okay, you're obviously not going to like anything else I have to say, so I'm done. If anyone else has any objections, please bring them up.
I really find it incredible that you're objecting. A lot of things have been said against the government of Israel, but I haven't heard anyone questioning the statistics it gathers for its own bureaucratic purposes on its own citizens (these data do not include any information on Palestinians in the territories). How might the statistics be biased exactly? Too many or too few Jews? Too large a population, or too small? What would be the purpose of that? (Don't answer, it's a rhetorical question. I'm not going to debate this.)
-- Adam Raizen