Steve Vertigum wrote:
--- Adam Raizen <araizen(a)newmail.net> wrote:
Steve Vertigum wrote:
The statistics already exist; I don't have the
means
to do my own poll.
Huh?
Now it's just a question of whether to add
them to
Wikipedia, and if so,
in what form and with what explanation.
Add what -- the new statistics that "already exist"
but you cant find, or the backup ones from a
controversial POV source?
I have no idea what you're talking about. I've only had one set of
statistics since the beginning, and I've never said anything about not
being able to find some statistics. I downloaded the spreadsheet from
http://gis.cbs.gov.il/Website/Localities2001/Rashuyot_htm/profilExcel2001.x…
from the website of Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, which
contains data on the local authorities in Israel from the end of 2001.
From
http://gis.cbs.gov.il/Website/Localities2001/Rashuyot_htm/hakdama-CBS-h_IE.…:
"This publication is a joint venture between the Central Bureau of
Statistics and the Interior Ministry. In the publication there are
physical data (population, education and welfare, infrastructure, etc.)
and financial data (execution of the budget) concerning the local
authorities in Israel for the year 2001."
So far,
you're the only one to
object,
No Im not. I came into this thread after a couple
people raised questions.
Some people have raised questions, but so far you're the only one to
object to using the statistics at all under any circumstances.
and not on any
specific reason to distrust
the statistics, but
just on a general distrust of Israel. For the nth
time, this will be
explained in detail in an article linked to from the
bot's articles.
This isnt good enough--you cant simply add statistics
from Hamas and stipulate these with a buried link to
an article which explains that "these stats may not be
NPOV"
Actually, I expect that stats from Hamas would be acceptible, if Hamas
collects statistics, if they're attributed on the page itself (as these
will be), and with a link to additional explanation in a prominent place
(as these will have). Whatever gave you the idea that the link would be
"buried".
Ah. Such effortless effort should be noted for its
notability.
What exactly are you objecting to?
The use of a bot to add Israeli government statistics,
which we proved a few letters ago was not NPOV, and
also was an apartheid state, which among decent
thoughful people tends to raise a flag or two.
So you object to adding links to the home pages of the local authorities
in question (since that what you were responding to)?
I'm not
avoiding the issue. I've posted explanations
of the demographic
categories in a couple of different messages, and
I'll expand upon that
in the article which will be linked to from all the
bot-generated
articles. If you can't find the explanations, I'll
collect them and
repost them. If you have any specific objections,
I'd like to hear them.
If you have any specific questions that I haven't
answered, ask away.
Im not the kind of guy to get sidetracked with
specifics-- I am the kind to state some obvious
things--that NPOV would be violated if we added
POV-based data en masse.
Add it by hand if you want-- let each stand up to
scrutiny.
As I understand it, in Israel-- even the names of
towns and cities is a often a question of POV.
Of course, it will be a very simple matter to have
a
bot go around and
correct/update these articles, if needed (much
simpler than creating the
articles in the first place).
I love how you say "we can take care of it easy and
simple"--just sign on the line--- You sound like a
politician, young man.
"We're" not pinching
our collective nose
at anything. I think that you need a better
objection than just a
general dislike for Israel.
Its not a "general dislike" --(dont start that
pottytalk with me--or at least use LD's <rant> tags)--
its an nose for the smell of POV disguised as a field
of "statistics", boosted en mass, up the rear end of
the WP. The WP does'nt necessarily object to this
course of entry, provided the proper prophylactic
measures have been secured. (We dont want to catch any
POV in other words) You could might as well name it
the POV-BOT, since were all friends here.
WikiLove be upon you and your progeny,
~S~
Okay, you're obviously not going to like anything else I have to say, so
I'm done. If anyone else has any objections, please bring them up.
I really find it incredible that you're objecting. A lot of things have
been said against the government of Israel, but I haven't heard anyone
questioning the statistics it gathers for its own bureaucratic purposes
on its own citizens (these data do not include any information on
Palestinians in the territories). How might the statistics be biased
exactly? Too many or too few Jews? Too large a population, or too small?
What would be the purpose of that? (Don't answer, it's a rhetorical
question. I'm not going to debate this.)
-- Adam Raizen